Space year 2019.1 and symmetry still not working.

[johnkeates2865]

When will symmetry actually work? I just tried making a head in 2019.1 and quite quickly, symmetry broke (using the cut tool). It doesn't work at all when soft selection is on! so I had to go back to 2018.

I have reported these to the testing team but really you guys need to have a proper few months of hammering away at this until it works and don't pat yourself on the back until it really does work properly and reliably through the modelling of an entire character. Honestly, it makes me feel sad and I start to wander what you are doing with the money I have payed you.

This symmetry debacle has been going on for years now and I am at the point where I need to look elsewhere for basic tasks such as modelling symmetrically. That will probably be Blender - and who knows what else will keep me there?

[sean.heasley]

Hi @johnkeates2865 

I just tried soft selection, multi cut and basic modeling, extruding etc with symmetry enabled on a basic human model and had no issues in 2019.1.

Depending on the model you're using you'll have to double check the topology and make sure there's no glaring symmetry issues because if there are the tool won't work. You can also always place the model on the 0,0,0 space and freeze transforms and delete history to sort of "reset" the symmetry tool so it should work as expected.

If you're still having issues please post some screenshots or videos of this happening on your set up so I can try and reproduce them.

If you need a video capturing program, Screencast is a great option that we use here at Autodesk

[johnkeates2865]

"I just tried soft selection, multi cut and basic modeling, extruding etc with symmetry enabled on a basic human model and had no issues in 2019.1."

I actually don't believe you.

Here is me trying to cut from the center seam then doing soft selection after making topological symmetry on a freshly made divided cube.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/q1at6em66qt1ocr/2019-06-10%2019-16-51.mp4?dl=0

How much should I bill you for all this beta testing?

[sean.heasley]

Hi @johnkeates2865 

I made a quick video of myself in 2019.1 doing the same functions as you with no issues so please let me know if I missed anything.

This is most likely an issue with your settings/preferences or the soft selection settings. You can open the move tool and reset the soft selection tool to see if that helps otherwise you can try deleting your settings/preferences.

[johnkeates2865]

So, first off, cutting from the centre seam clearly doesn't work (as you actually demonstrate). You can cut starting from an edge usually, but not a centre edge. This is inconsistent behaviour, which (so far as the user is concerned) is a bug.

I found that clearing the soft selection options did solve the related symmetry issue but the fact is that it was a brand-new install and there is no setting which reproduces the issue that I have found. There is really no reason why it should ever be broken like that (can you think of one?) and therefore no setting which should make it work again when reset - so it is definitely buggy behaviour.

Also, it isn't like there aren't other ussues (some more design issues). For instance, if you make a poly split you will notice that each side gets its own node, so if you then decide that you want to make the split have edge flow for example, you have to make sure to make the change for both nodes. That is not intuitive as there was only one operation so far as the user is concerned. I expect that other tools have similar problems.

Also, 'To Edge Ring And Split' often doesn't work with symmetry (I have sent a report with files about this before).

Also, if you assign topological symmetry to an object, then to another object, the first object will no longer have symmetry applied. It is very easy then to move to an object which once had symmetry on it and start editing it, only to find that you have lost symmetry.

Granted, the 'Mirror' command does work much better in this version so it is less of an issue, but still...

[sean.heasley]

Hi @johnkeates2865 

The reason cutting from the center doesn't work is because when symmetry is active you would be trying to place two verts on top of each other which isn't a good idea. If instead you click from the edges across from the center and then move inwards to the center symmetry works fine. I wouldn't say this is a bug but it could be a tool update for future releases as I can see why you would want to click from that center and work your way outwards.

If resetting the tool doesn't work then you will want to check the axis orientation and see if it is world, local, normal etc as if that is changed it could be causing this affect. I forget to mention that in the video but you can try it out now and see. Yes you are right this should work out of the box and is why I would like you to try that before resetting your settings.

The edge ring to split issue I haven't seen and can't reproduce so if you can show that as well I'd be happy to look into it and see if I can reproduce it.

[mspeer]

Hi!

@johnkeates2865  and @sean.heasley 

Regarding Soft Selection:

This happens when setting Falloff Mode to "Global", but this is not the default setting when installing Maya and creating new Preferences (default is "Volume"), also a warning (should) appears when using this withSymmetry enabled:

"// Warning: line 1: Symmetry temporarily disabled while using global soft selection"

[johnkeates2865]

"If instead you click from the edges across from the center and then move inwards to the center symmetry works fine."

It doesn't work fine, because I had to click from the edges across from the center and then move inwards. You can rationalize why it doesn't work all you like, but the fact is that it doesn't work and there is no good reason, from a design point of view, why it shouldn't. If it is fixed, nobody will be thinking "oh... nice bonus extra feature", they will be thinking "at last, they got that bit working properly", because the work-around that we have to do now is annoying and silly.

"If resetting the tool doesn't work "

Like I said in my last post, resetting soft selection did work. And as mspeer said, it is the "Global" mode which stops it from working. Again though, from a design point of view there is no reason why it shouldn't work in Global mode. In fact, it would be really handy if it did, as sometimes you want to move eyes and have the flesh around them move, and you would most likely want to do that with symmetry on. I submitted that as an 'idea' a while ago but again, it shouldn't be considered a bonus extra feature... more just another thing needed to make symmetry work properly.

"The edge ring to split issue I haven't seen and can't reproduce so if you can show that as well I'd be happy to look into it and see if I can reproduce it."

Like I said in my previous post, I submitted a bug report about this with an example file a while ago.

So now, look at it from my point of view... I have spent literally days of my life submitting carefully constructed bug reports about this stuff which seem to have been lost or ignored. I have pointed out problems here which you are giving weird excuses for as if symmetry actually works fine just as long as you ignore the cases where it doesn't. So I ask again... how much should I bill you for my bug reporting?

[johnkeates2865]

I should add that attempting to cut from the centre with symmetry on can cause a crash. Is that intended behaviour? Should we consider it an extra feature for maya not to crash when doing that?