Quick access to basic maps (Diffuse, Refl, Refr, Normal, Spec, Displ) in Shader

[BenediZ]

The basic input maps of shaders (Diffuse, Normal Reflection etc.) should get an quick access.

They are something we need often for

- to exchange them, to modify them, to see or change the directory, to modify their settings.

The process with scrolling through the Attribute Editor or clicking thorugh the node tree is always time-comsuming.

A small panel section with buttons similar to shelf buttons (maybe named DIF, NM, REFL, REFR, DISP, BUMP, IOR etc) could be implemented at the top of the Attribute Editor.

They could immediately open  a) the filenode in Hypershade b) ) the file path  and c) goes immediately to the section of the shader.

The different usages could be solved with Left-click, Middelmous-click and rightclick on such icons

Why:

The maps were often generated outside (Substance, zBrush, Mari for example) and are important for look developement, but a good structure to access them is missing in Maya.

Furthermore you could define default rules for color space inputs of specific connected maps, which automatically define sRGB for diffuse map and RAW for Displacement as an example. (It has nothing to do with file format or naming, because this can change a lot)

Also this would speed up some workflows.

And even better would be, if the last used setting for each kind of map (for example for Displacement the used Vector space) is used for next map of the same kind of input. I have always the same workflows, but I feel this software wants me to do everything every day from scratch.

It's generally incomprehensible, why so many standard workflows, that easy could taken by automatization, still demand the user to go through everything manually.

Please rethink all workflows, reduce it to the max.

All these things do not need many advanced developers, they are just simple enhancements for the UI and usability.

[jwlove]

I think an easier method for selecting and editing those items you mentioned is definitely a good idea; however, I don't think adding items similar to shelf buttons to the attribute editor for this explicit purpose is a good idea.  The attribute editor is too broad of a tool for this specific issue, so it is used by more than just lighting and texture artists.

I've seen other ideas for updating or flat out replacing the hypershade - I think this idea is much better suited to be added into that.  It could be a portion of the 'new hypershade' with the buttons you mentioned that works based on whatever you have selected in the scene similar to how the attribute editor does.  Add to that the other suggestions you mentioned, and that would be a much better (and streamlined) tool for you to work with.

[BenediZ]

Hi jwlove,

thanks for your reply: I wouldn't stick exactly to my suggestion.

But I just want everybody to consider that the Hypershade slows some workflows down.:

- It's  always taking some seconds of waiting to open the Hypershade, especially with larger scenes

- and it takes a lot screenspace, which could in most cases compensated by the Attibute Editor, if it just gives a bit more functionality.

If you look for example at Substance Painter, you don't need to look at complicated network node trees, if you just want to connect textures.

- Using the Hypershade often messes up already opened tabs (can't say why exactly, but new nodes appear e.g. in the tabs)

And by the way, the Hypershade is missing basic features like backdrops to organize sections of the node tree (compare Nuke!)

and a something like folders (backdrops that collect parts of the node tree, which can be minimized or completely revealed - compare substance or imgine even photoshop without folders!).

The UI of the Hypershade is time-consuming and takes a lot screenspace for scrolling, when you want to have a look at everything. It is missing elements to arrange/organize properly.

I see this suggestion as a basic input to rethink from user side:

- What are the most frequently needed tasks and which would be the fastest and most intuitive way to solve them without having to go through many windows/panels and reoccuring settings.

Maya needs more user friendly structure and automatization for standard tasks (which reduces also failures and disappointment from beginners, which I can tell as a teacher).

[jwlove]

Yes, pretty much every issue you mentioned about the hypershade is in the suggestions for improving or replacing the existing hypershade that I have seen, so I was suggesting this should all get folded into that since it is explicitly geared toward making texture work more intuitive and quicker/easier to do those standard tasks.  Hopefully the Maya devs would be aware of (and take into consideration) all 'hypershade improvement' ideas when they finally decide to update it so the community doesn't have to pool them all in the same suggestion for them...

Some other suggestions I've seen involving changes to tools that would help lighting/texturing often don't take into consideration that the tool is used by other artists who don't do that, so the additions would bloat a tool that's working pretty well for them.  For example, there was a suggestion to add a bunch of stuff to the node editor for lighting specific tasks.  As a rigger, I use the node editor ALL the time, and never for lighting/texturing since I don't really do that...  So, I suggested that the hypershade (or its replacement) would have the additions requested, and could also have a node editor imbedded into it.  It would give the benefit of the requested additions without bloating the existing node editor, and it should benefit from any updates to the node editor since it would kind of behave like an instance of the node editor within the hypershade instead of a whole new 'node editor like' tool that needs a bunch of duplicate functionality (aka duplicate ui code).

Perhaps a portion of the revamped hypershade could be dedicated to a streamlined 'attribute editor' section that basically just cares about lighting/texturing specific nodes.  I guess what I'm trying to say is that there seems to be a lot of issues with the tool that is actually dedicated to lighting/texture artists - to the point where a lot of them try to avoid it like the plague - so rather than peppering all the other tools that these artists are using to avoid the hypershade with things specific to their workflow, perhaps it's actually the hypershade itself that needs to be gutted and re-made with all of these lighting/texturing workflow suggestions taken into account.  Maybe this would even mean a tool for lighting, and a separate tool for texturing - I really don't know since I don't do those tasks much (if ever).

It almost seems like a reversal of rigging related issues I remember from the past... I remember using the hypergraph in combination with the work area section of the hypershade to look at various node connections and adjust them.  This wasn't the greatest workflow, but rather than adding rigging specific requests into those tools, we ended up getting new tools like the node editor to improve our workflow.  Now I never open those tools because the outliner, node editor, and some use of the attribute editor are great for my workflow needs.  I think the same could and should be done for you guys!

[userX4542]

Yes, I've posted many times about problems related to materials, the hypershade, look dev, etc. 

This is definitely one problem and ought to be addressed because making tweaks is now so slow it's painful. I'm not sure about the solution. I still think Autodesk need to look at Softimage and take that workflow, or something even better than than. It doesn't need to be complicated. I just want to be able to instantly graph a material and its full shader network in 1 click. This has been possible in xsi for yeaaaaars. The fact that it was killed off, so that more time could be spent developing maya.....still hasn't become a reality unfornately.

Let's hope maya 2019 shows more promising results.

[BenediZ]

Exactly, you all are right! Thanks for your comments

[Alexx31]

To emphasize what you already said

Here an EXAMPLE typical workflow for texturing for a simple normal map:

1. click on checker box Icon

2. search "file" node

3. click on directory icon of the file node

4. search directory

5. click (select) texture map

6. change color space for normal map to RAW

7. search/go back again to material

8. scroll all the long way down through to bump-normal mapping (name depending from render engine of course)

9. change to "tangent space"

Duration: half minute taking, concentration need = 90%, creative time during that process = 0%

Expected behaviour for a modern software for professionals:

1. Select the Normal Map texture and drag it on normal map texture input. (regardless if from folder or from anywhere else)

DONE! (using defaults, that remember either the last used normal map and otherwise also can be predefined for each shaderinput)

Concentration need = 10%, creative thoughts = not interrupted

I also agree it would be easier to put all inputs one next to each other on the top of the material.

There is so much wasted empty space next to the preview icon of the texture.

[BenediZ]

Additional: Life could be so easy 🙂

Click on any file node with RightMouse Button (or whichever hotkey is available) and you get nice infos and a "link" that directly opens the file in the explorer on PC (or in finder at Mac)

[Alexx31]

[BenediZ]

Also have a look at the C4D "OUTLINER", which would be a good addition:

It has the associated materials in a second column, which is giving a good overview.

It could be so easy to integrate here an expandable area with quick access to all basic maps and a drag&drop functionality.

(And who doesn't like it, could hide the column and everything is like before.)