Select face to extrude instead of create sketch first

[Neil_Cross]

I just saw this in a Fusion 360 video, would be a nice simple addition to Inventor and makes perfect sense.

- Select a flat face

- Click Extrude

- Extrude will auto-create sketch and project all geometry on that face to use for extrude profile

Saves having to create sketch, click project geometry, pick face, exit sketch, launch extrude, pick profile.  Or a variation of that workflow.

[tmuel]

Also please make this work with the sheet metal face tool. This is a perfect workflow for creating a sheet metal part(s) in a multibody solid. For instance; designing a box/guard. Currently, the workflow is to create a (master) "box" to control the ID/OD of a sheet metal design. Create sketch on a face, project geometry then create face based on that profile - repeat this many times, using the bend tool to connect edges where appropriate to complete the sheet metal design. The ability to roll these multiple steps into one operation would be ideal.

[SharkDesign]

Can you not just use direct edit?

Or 'Autoproject edges for sketch creation and edit'

[Neil_Cross]

@SharkDesign Direct edit doesn't create an extrude feature and I'm not saying that the current way of doing it is a massive chore, but this is a new feature idea area and what I've proposed is a new feature which would enhance an existing workflow.

[DRoam]

Would be great if this would work with Sweep as well. So you only have to draw the sweep path and can use an existing face as the profile.

Also, I personally think it would be great if (at least optionally) the profile were derived from the face itself rather than a Sketch projected from the face's edges. This would be much more stable. Very much like how the Thicken command works. Really, we can already accomplish a face-derived "extrusion" using the Thicken command. But we can't have a face-derived Sweep profile. (We can derive a sweep's path from an existing face's edges, though).

I think it would be great if we could have a face-derived Sweep profile, and an actual face-derived Extrusion, even though Thicken already does this.

@Neil_Cross, would that be acceptable? Or would you want the profile to be created from an auto-created sketch with auto-projected edges like you described so the profile can be modified down the road?

[smokes2998]

 You would end up with a a messy history tree.

Seen alot of users do this select face create 2d sketch auto project edges extrude.

It can make it and utter pain to edit models.

[ic198]

As DRoam said, why not use Thicken? It does pretty much exactly what you ask for, and is very stable. It doesn't even bother creating a sketch- just works directly from the face. The Thicken can be reassigned to a different face without falling over. I use it to create almost all my sheet metal parts- create a solid that defines the internal (usually) volume of my finished part, then Thicken the faces (with create new body option selected) to create the sheet metal parts.

@DRoam, I do like the ideal of a face driven Sweep though... Loft is face driven, so why not Sweep? Revolve could also receive the same treatment.

[Neil_Cross]

With the greatest of respect this is a new feature suggestion area, I appreciate the willingness to offer help to people wherever possible but I'm not actively looking for support thanks, I was here to suggest a workflow enhancement 

What I've suggested was an alternative method for executing the extrude command when an extrude feature is what you need to do the job, pick a face then shortcut E to get an extrude.  I don't want to start a debate but when an extrude feature is what you want, that's better than what we have right now.  This would be similar to how fillet and chamfer were modified to being a pickfirst/noun-verb style command a few years ago.  If it's deemed not worth the effort to implement something like this then fair enough, but this is a valid workflow enhancement suggestion.

[DRoam]

I agree 100%.

I'm all for versatility. I think it would be great if the following enhancements were made:

1. The functionality Neil suggested were implemented. If you already have a face selected when you initiate the Extrude, Revolve, etc. commands, Inventor would automatically create a sketch and project the face's edges and begin the Extrude/etc. operation.
2. All relevant commands (Extrude, Revolve, Sweep, Loft, etc.) were made to work like Loft does, where AFTER you start the command with nothing selected, you can either select a face OR a sketch as the profile.

This would allow for both methods (face-derived or auto-projected sketch) depending on if you already have a face selected when you start the command.

Not trying to commandeer or modify your original idea, @Neil_Cross. It's just when I read your idea, my immediate thought was how the Thicken command (and I guess the Loft command as well) work and how robust that is to derive the profile directly from a face. So I brought that up as a possible tweak on the implementation. But I definitely agree with you that the basic auto-projected extrusion would be great as well. So if both could be implemented, potentially as I described above, I think that would be ideal.

But of course all votes on this idea should be considered for the functionality in part 1, as described in the original Idea statement.

[ic198]

It is common on the Ideas board for people to offer workarounds for how a requirement can be achieved now, and also to debate the merits and means of a particular suggestion. My suggestion was also for @Anonymous as the process he describes sounds laborious (though he probably has very good reasons for it).

My question was that I don't currently see how what you are suggesting (have extrude auto-create a sketch when a face is selected) is an enhancement, when Thicken is available, and by not creating a sketch, Thicken is potentially more stable. Maybe if you could explain the advantages? And do you see it working like loft, or do you want to be able to edit the sketch afterwards?

[DRoam]

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@ic198 wrote:

Maybe if you could explain the advantages?

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@ic198 wrote:

...or do you want to be able to edit the sketch afterwards?

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Not to speak for Neil, but I think you just answered your own question 🙂

Also -- one disadvantage of Thicken is that it doesn't have the same extents options as Extrude does. (or Taper... if any ever actually uses that).

[Neil_Cross]

I did explain the advantage, you click the face and then you hotkey E.

As opposed to: New 2D Sketch, click face, project geometry (if not auto projected) exit sketch, click extrude, pick profile or varying combinations of other methods.  I'm not sure what more of an explanation is required to highlight the advantage of the feature idea

.

I see where you're coming from with thicken, but it's just not extrude, with thicken you can't:

- Pick a face to thicken to

- thicken between two planes

- thicken to the next face

- thicken with a taper

- click to drag the thicken distance, it has to be a typed value

- parametrically link a thicken to an adjoining face for an adaptive thicken

- thicken through all

[ic198]

@DRoam that's what I was trying to get to- Loft works differently from what (I think) has been suggested, in that there is no sketch to edit afterwards. The extents options in Thicken are an issue (I have wished for Thicken To before)

@Neil_Cross Your original post explained the advantages over the current workflow using Extrude, and I understand that. It didn't explain why it was better than Thicken. To me the list you gave in your last post sounds more like an excellent list of improvements to Thicken than a reason to change Extrude Would you like to post it as another idea? It's got my vote.

[smokes2998]

Neil

you mean this sort of  functionality

Synchronous Technology click me

 As long as you can throw the history tree away i am all for it

[Neil_Cross]

@smokes2998 Inventor can already do that, I didn't watch it all but that looks just like Direct Edit which Inventor has?

@ic198 That's fair enough  although if you buff thicken to that extent, you'll have two commands that do almost the same thing!

Basically I saw a guy do the pick face then hit extrude workflow in a Fusion 360 video and thought that would be a good optional alternative to launching an extrude in Inventor, there's really nothing more to read into this than that! It wouldn't replace any current work flows, it's just an optional alternative.

[DRoam]

I hope this isn't my fault -- but I think @ic198 and @smokes2998 are misinterpreting/over-complicating Neil's suggestion. He explicitly stated the desired functionality (auto-projected sketch for extrusions) and motivation (time/click saving) in his original post, and it's as simple as that.

I tried to suggest a possible tweak to the implementation, but he made it clear this Idea is focused entirely on an auto-projected sketch function for the Extrude tool, and that's that.

@ic198, while I see what you're getting at, the Thicken command is still primarily purposed for thickening multiple faces, so adding auto-projected sketch functionality or "to" functionality to it would be counter to its intended purpose. The functionality Neil suggested as well as the "to" functionality most definitely fit with the Extrude tool and not with the Thicken tool.

Finally, @smokes2998, the Synchronous Technology functionality from Solid Edge is nothing short of a miracle in CAD, but it's a totally different issue/idea entirely. I think it would be great as a new suggestion/Idea.

[Neil_Cross]

@DRoam It is? Maybe I did it a disservice then by comparing it to Direct Edit, I've never even been near a PC with Solid Edge installed so I probably shouldn't pass comment on it!

[DRoam]

I haven't either  but I've seen it in action in a few videos and it definitely looks miraculous to me.

Next time you have half an hour to kill, watch through the videos on this page: Solid Edge Synchronous Technology. Of course, Solid Edge can make their own stuff look as amazing as they want, but there doesn't seem to be much funny business or exaggeration going on.

[ic198]

@DRoam, I'm definitely not suggesting adding sketches or autoproject anything to Thicken- just enhancing the options for terminating the Thicken. Extend (surface) has a To option, so why not Thicken?

@Neil_Cross I think there is space for both ideas and both commands. Extrude would still be primarily sketch driven but (with your idea) the sketch could be created automatically, and would be available for later editing. Is this right?

Thicken would still be face driven but with extra options for ending the Thicken. The crucial difference is that Thicken would have no sketch and would work for curved or multiple faces.

Hijack over- I'll go and post Thicken enhancements as a new idea, unless you want to do it?

[smokes2998]

I Neil if you have time

http://www.plm.automation.siemens.com/plmapp/se/en_US/online/Shop#ACTION=1189811524

download the 45 day trail and do the tutorials you will see why moan lot about inventor.

I used it for 2 years in a an engineering company,  before moving to another job that used inventor.

Even inventor 2017 will struggle to do half the the stuff st3 and st4 were capable off.

I don't want to move down to the south of England to get an Solidedge Job.

[DRoam]

@ic198, you can most certainly post the suggestion, but I'm fairly certain that any operation you would want to use "Thicken to" or "Thicken all" or "Thicken between" for would be better suited as an extrusion or loft. Whatever we might finangle it for, the thicken command is designed to "thicken" multiple faces to a uniform thickness from their original surface geometry. Adding a "to", "between", or "all" makes it no longer a "thicken" but an extrusion or loft.

Hence the motivation for the enhancement I suggested (adding faces as a selection mode for the extrusion/sweep/etc. tools like we can with Loft). You could then accomplish using the Extrude tool anything you would otherwise want to accomplish using Thicken, but you'd be using the proper tool to do so and avoiding the purpose/functionality bleed-over that would incur if you added extents options to the Thicken command.

All that said... I can think of one instance when you might want to use "thicken to", and that's when you want to "thicken" a face or set of faces to a variable thickness as defined by a surface which you've created suspended above the original face(s). You could use multiple "extrude to"'s to create this, but "thicken to" might make more sense in this case. But it's a very special case that I don't see being needed very often. But if you and others would use that often enough to make it worth the developers' time and effort to implement it, more power to you 

... so much for not starting a debate, @Neil_Cross