Why does Inventor have so many glitches?

[Anonymous]

Why does Inventor have so many glitches?   I've been using the program for approx 15 years, 8 to 9 hours a day (always with the most current version).  Over that span of time, the program seems riddled with problems about 5 to 10 percent of the time.  Every year at release time, the program crashes repeatedly.  I currently have 32GB of Ram which should allow the program to do some temporary backup/save and some error handling, BUT NO, it just crashes and leaves the screen. This release, the IDW is NOT Updating changes made to IPT and IAM parts.  The horizontal and vertical constraints are reversed about 50% of the time in the last 2 years.  There are other numerous glitches which will go unspecified here.   

When I see users on the forum voice these type of opinions, it is often insinuated that the user is the problem or that the issue is an isolated incident (so far out of main stream and no one else is experiencing any problems).  These types of programs are powerful and can be fun to use when they are working.  My hats off to the programmers for those good times, but WHY, oh why can't the program be fixed?  I'm assuming when Inventor abandoned VBA years ago that the entire program was revamped from the ground up, but the same problems keep showing up with every release.

Dave

[mcgyvr]

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@Curtis_Waguespack wrote:

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@mcgyvr wrote:

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Johnson... I don't think thats the issue here ...

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Hi mcgyvr,

Firstly you should know better than to doubt johnsonshiue on anything relating to deep dark nether regions of Inventor

Secondly, I think he's on to something. I just searched my machine and found the standard templates under the default install location (forgot those were still there) and located the Standard (DIN).ipt

It has the same behavior for the horizontal and vertical constraints that I see when starting a new file using the SHIFT + CTRL + NEW to get a "fresh clean" template.

If I recall correctly there is something different about the co-ordinate systems for some of the templates. We see this when comparing some (all?) of the inch vs metric templates I think.

see video

I hope this helps.
Best of luck to you in all of your Inventor pursuits,
Curtis
http://inventortrenches.blogspot.com

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I know.. Johnson is the man.. I knew I may foot meet mouth on that one..

I was just going off where the Z was in the 2 images vs what I saw with the Z in the DIN templates (point up not out) as I was walking out the door at work..

Now that I'm home I fired up Inventor here and was playing around and have started to see the differences in behavior better..

Of course that could be the shots of Fireball I took first and the 2 beer chasers

Gotta go.. Its Wife/Life time..  

[smokes2998]

The Z up is  confusing as well as the default front base view on drawings in idw is X-Y with Y is up. What happens with Having  Z up is when users insert the  base view into the drawing the have to rotate the view every **** time, now many user are used to this but, coming  from a SW SE background,  we find this a massive waste of  time having to rotate the base view especially when you are doing a lot of drawings.

It is the same issue with inserting the top view you always have to rotate it 90 to project the front view above or below the base top view.

[mcgyvr]

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@smokes2998 wrote:

The Z up is  confusing as well as the default front base view on drawings in idw is X-Y with Y is up. What happens with Having  Z up is when users insert the  base view into the drawing the have to rotate the view every **** time, now many user are used to this but, coming  from a SW SE background,  we find this a massive waste of  time having to rotate the base view especially when you are doing a lot of drawings.

It is the same issue with inserting the top view you always have to rotate it 90 to project the front view above or below the base top view.

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You can change/correct that if you want..

I never have to rotate any base view I place it..

Y is up on mine by default.. 

[Anonymous]

I can see his beef.

Here is my default yz plane in my default template. It's not want you would think is correct?

The xz and  xy  give correct results.

I think my default came from the DIN template?

[smokes2998]

This issue has  been a problem with the default templates since the inventor came out. The issue, hasn't been raised because, a lot of inventor users come form Autocad and wouldn't know any better.

There was huge issue with Y up Z up at my last company because everyone went with what the ISO template view cube showed and not what the documentation in relation to the UCS defaults said.

To this day it is very annoying because isometric views rely on Y up other wise you have to put in a custom view and for some reason custom views eat memory and CPU cycles like it is going out of fashion especially on large assemblies.

[mcgyvr]

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@Anonymous wrote:

I think my default came from the DIN template?

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That looks like the non-DIN template orientations..

Looking into this more I like how the DIN template is EXCEPT.. I think the "normal" on the XZ plane should be the other way around..

Not sure if there is another template that has it just like that except the normal is switched.. 

But when I use that template horizontal is always horizontal as expected..

The non-DIN ones look like the image that you posted and that plane specifically is the one where vertical is horizontal.. 

I can get around the "normal" being backwards to me by turning on "Perform Minimal Rotation" on the Display tab of the application options... Then it doesn't rotate all the way around to the back of that plane..

I admit its goofy... and yes.. I've been fooled many times with the horizontal being vertical issues... Not sure its a bug as I really think it was designed to work that way.. But I would have done it differently had I been making the decisions there..  

@johnsonshiue Johnson.. Is there a way to flip the normal for the XZ plane in the DIN template? 

I don't think so but I can use that template.. Create a 0 offset plane based on it and flip the normal on that.. 

Just like this below is "perfect" IMO.. Horizontal is horizontal as expected on all planes..(and the normal is correct on my now "fake" XZ plane..)

[Anonymous]

And we can chat about the templates all we want. But as soon as we sketch on the extruded first surface Horz or Vert are who knows?

That first sketch is 90 deg from the Origin

[mcgyvr]

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@Anonymous wrote:

But as soon as we sketch on the extruded first surface Horz or Vert are who knows?

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Oh. yes... Thats really messed up..

Just noticed that too.. 

Horizontal was horizontal then create a sketch on a face thats parallel to what was "correct" and then horizontal becomes vertical again.. 

[Anonymous]

Here is a different template that I call my Z up Template and the Origin are what I think are correct. Sketch on YZ origins and yes, I get what I want .

Extrude a simple box, sketch on the side of the box my sketch 2 and it is 90 deg wrong.

[Anonymous]

Here is a different template that I call my Z up Template and the Origin are what I think are correct. Sketch on YZ origins and yes, I get what I want .

Extrude a simple box, sketch on the side of the box my sketch 2 and it is 90 deg wrong.

[Anonymous]

sorry about the double post

[smokes2998]

This the other inconsistency I have noticed and it is the only cad system that does it.

I think it some lazy coding i.e someone took the path of least resistance  to achieve the plane creation.  

[Anonymous]

The other thing that bugs me. Look at sketch 2, the sketch origin is at the projected center point. Now look at Sketch 4 (front of the box) the sketch origin is at the bottom left corner. If you sketch on the opposite side of the box from sketch 2 it will be at the center origin again. the top will be in the corner again.

[Anonymous]

Autodesk? Crickets

[Curtis_Waguespack]

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@Anonymous wrote:

...Extrude a simple box, sketch on the side of the box my sketch 2 and it is 90 deg wrong.

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Hi Doug_DuPont,

See these posts (6 and 9)  from johnsonshiue:

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/inventor-forum/horizontal-and-vertical-constraints-is-reversed/m-p/5019726#M507791

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/inventor-forum/horizontal-and-vertical-constraints-is-reversed/m-p/5023852#M508059

I hope this helps.
Best of luck to you in all of your Inventor pursuits,
Curtis
http://inventortrenches.blogspot.com

[DRoam]

I wish I had time to read through every post on this thread, but I don't. But based on my understanding from skimming through it, the issues discussed here have been discussed many times before. I've had a lot of time to experience them in my own work, to hear others users' feedback on them, and to think about what the real issue/solution is.

So here's what I think is needed to fix the horizontal/vertical/UCS/ViewCube mess:

(for those who don't know, UCS means User Coordinate System)

1. Fix the automatic UCS orientation of new/redefined Sketches. "Fix" meaning that the Sketch Y-axis should point "up" (as dictated by the View Cube), ALWAYS. Except when the plane is "flat", and in that case the X-axis should point to the "right" (as dictated by the View Cube). Following those two rules will always ensure a UCS orientation that makes sense. Take a look this Idea and this Screencast.
2. Make defining the Sketch UCS orientation a part of the Sketch creation/re-define process. This way it's always clear to the user, when creating or re-defining a Sketch, that he is also defining the origin and orientation of the Sketch's coordinate system. Most people have no idea that this is even happening behind-the-scenes when a Sketch is created. In fact, they have no idea a Sketch even has its own coordinate system, hence all the confusion about "horizontal" and "vertical". Eliminate this confusion altogether. When a Sketch is created/re-defined, show the automatic Sketch UCS location/orientation (as determined by #1), and allow the user to either "Continue" to accept the default, or make some selections to redefine it.
3. In 2D sketches, the UCS should ALWAYS be visible by default. Otherwise it's a huge mystery about just what determines "horizontal" and "vertical" and "Sketch origin". Eliminate the ambiguity and make the Sketch UCS be displayed by default. Maybe even gray out the global UCS to make it clear that's not the currently-utilized coordinate system.
4. In 2D sketches, do away with "Horizontal" and "Vertical" altogether and replace them with "Parallel to Sketch X-Axis" and "Parallel to Sketch Y-Axis" just like we have in the 3D sketch environment. Done. So simple. No more arguments about what "horizontal" and "vertical" are.

[Curtis_Waguespack]

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@DRoam wrote:

... have been discussed many times before. I've had a lot of time to experience them in my own work...

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Hi DRoam,

In reading your bullet points I realize that I've never paid that much attention to the behavior of Horizontal / Vertical before, and have never perceived this to be the issue that others do. I think mostly because I just toggle from one to the other via keyboard as needed. But also because I have always thought that Horizontal / Vertical are somewhat "subjective" when we're orbiting around in 3D space.

So I'd add a bullet 5 to your list, that would ask for a quick toggle for Horizontal / Vertical as well, as I think that would help many people with these constraints.

I hope this helps.
Best of luck to you in all of your Inventor pursuits,
Curtis
http://inventortrenches.blogspot.com

[smokes2998]

SWX and SE automatically point out weather the line in a sketch is closer to horizontal or vertical when constraining the sketch.

I don't use auto constraints, in inventor as parallel and perpendicular constraints can cause issues when editing a sketch..

With inventor we have to be aware of the horizontal an vertical axis in the sketch and in some models it can be difficult to see and it is tiring for the user when they have to constantly check if they are putting the right constraint on to the sketch line. We should just be able to look a the UCS and know what is defined as horizontal or vertical.

In regards to the default templates  Z is up in the din metric  template in the Asme imperial templates Y is up I don't understand why the din are Z up when the .idw base views relies on the model being Y up for the base views.

[Anonymous]

Smoke, Maybe you did not know this but the thicker crossing line is always the Hort.

[DRoam]

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@smokes2998 wrote:

With inventor we have to be aware of the horizontal an vertical axis in the sketch and in some models it can be difficult to see and it is tiring for the user when they have to constantly check if they are putting the right constraint on to the sketch line.

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@Anonymous wrote:

Smoke, Maybe you did not know this but the thicker crossing line is always the Hort.

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You're both making your lives harder than you need to 🙂 you don't need to guess OR scrunch over your desk to see which line is thicker. Just enable the Sketch UCS, as it should be by default. Makes life SO much easier.