Shared Project (Legacy project type)

[mat_hijs]

I just found out about the Shared Project project type. If I understand this correctly the difference between this and a Single User project is that you can check in or check out files, so you could work on the same assembly as someone else at the same time and not worry about overwriting each others changes or not being able to save after making changes. Would this be correct?

If so, why would Autodesk remove (or at least hide) this feature? This is exactly what I've been looking for it seems. I know you could use Vault for this, but as a smaller company this makes things very complicated very quickly. We don't need all the functions of Vault, we just don't want to have to worry about overwriting each others changes.

Is there any reason not to use this? For example is it likely that Autodesk will remove this feature completely in the future?

[Gabriel_Watson]

Correct. But keep in mind that Vault still does a lot more, and there are sometimes issues in leaving "legacy" check outs (non-Vault ones) in files that later on could end up being copied or used in a Vaulted environment... a few workarounds are needed then to relinquish files of those.

I think that this used to be the way to prepare users for Vault, but since Vault Basic is now shipped with Inventor they prefer to overlook that option and have it only for backward compatibility. I would guess this will not be deprecated in the future because it has been there for so long (chances are Inventor will deprecate into Fusion before that happens).

[johnsonshiue]

Hi! The legacy project team only offers check-in/check-out control. There isn't any automation or backup or versioning or copy design and other workflows that Vault offers.

The project type has been hidden for a quite while. However, I have not heard any plan to remove it, since we do have some users leveraging such type. It has not been further developed for sure.

Many thanks!

[mat_hijs]

That's exactly what I have been wanting. Just check in and check out capabilities. I can't help but wonder why Autodesk would hide such a feature. I mean, I understand they would like people to also use Vault. But I'm really interested in understanding why they would simply abandon an existing feature like this. Also, I assume there are no plans to ever update and reintegrate this feature?

[pcrawley]

It works by adding extended entity data to every file - and that data is hidden from Windows file explorer and iProperties.  So be careful about jumping into a) something you can't see, and b) something which has been "legacy" for several years.

If all you need is check-in / check out to people overwriting the same file, Vault Basic will do that.  You don't have to make it complicated or use it for any other function.  (Although I struggle to believe you won't soon be tempted to use it for renaming files without breaking links, or copying designs, or editing properties)

If you do start using the shared project, it adds a level of learning/adjustment for all users - it involves extra clicks and browser panels so you can see what is editable and what is not.  This is no different to using Vault.

At some point in the future you may decide you want to look at something better than shared projects.  Unfortunately that extended entity data will need removing - and that's a big job if you have to do it manually (voice of experience speaking!).   As far as I know, Autoloader (a tool used for bulk loading data into Vault) is the only product capable of bulk-stripping the data as you load it into Vault.

In my opinion:  You want a tool to prevent accidental overwriting of files, so you will implement and learn option A which is 'quick and dirty' and has no future because it is already obsolete.  Or you implement option B which also involves learning, but does not dirty your files, and is supported and well used throughout the world.

I'm a user - not a reseller or employee of Autodesk - but I have been there with Shared Projects and Vault for the same reasons you have and I would hate you to suffer the same pain we did.

[mat_hijs]

Maybe I didn't really make clear what I'm up to in this post. In theory this is exactly what I've been looking for. In reality I tested this out for a little bit, but it seems to be quite clunky. Add to that the fact that it's been hidden for years and I pretty much got to the point where I don't plan on really using this.

My issue with Vault is that our company seems to be too big to do nothing and just keep going without anything like Vault, shared projects, ... But it's also too small to have someone to set up, manage, maintain, ... Vault or anything similar.

[pcrawley]

Good to hear!

I don't think anyone is too small to use Vault.  I'm currently the only user running Inventor for production work and I would struggle without Vault for file management.  There is so much more value in your data than file-name and date modified that you can see in Windows Explorer.  

The installation of Vault software (server & client) is no more complicated than installing Inventor.  (Vault Basic server is supported on Windows 10 - so you can install it on your workstation - the processing overhead is minimal if you are a small team).   The biggest issue is the structure of your existing data.  You might be lucky and your data will check in without any trouble - but every company is different, so this is the one step that might slow you down.

There is a perception that Vault is something needing dedicated resources to manage & maintain.  Well, it does - but only in the same way someone needs to manage & maintain the filing system in Windows Explorer - the difference is that you can drag files around and rename them in Vault without breaking the relationships.  In Windows Explorer, you always end up with a cluster... we've all been there.

The only thing Vault does to the files on your hard disk is flag them as read-only.  If you check out a file, Vault removes the read-only flag.  Check it in, and it replaces the flag (and makes a copy of the update file back on the server).  That is all that prevents you from accidentally editing a file, so it is not a difficult thing to show your team, and it removes some of the mystery surrounding Vault.

Take the plunge - learn Vault - you won't regret it.  And if you get stuck, there are people here and on the Vault forum who will help.

[mat_hijs]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I'm definitely looking into it, I'll have to talk to our management about it since I'm in a position where I'm one of the people who can greatly influence any of these decisions but not in a position where I'm one of the people who actually make the decision.

[todd_cannon]

@ johnsonshiue, Are there any limitations with respect to use of Vault Basic with pro versions of applications such as Inventor Pro, etc? I understand the comparison of features between versions of Vault, but found nothing on the applications it's compatible with. I am assuming it does work, but someone here raised the question.

Edit: I guess the question is...is there a licensing issue to use Vault basic on a pro collection license?

Cheers,

Todd

[johnsonshiue]

Hi Todd,

If I understood it correctly, Vault Basic is an entitlement to any PDMC collection or Inventor Pro subscriber. It does not require additional license. It is a potent PDM tool, the foundation of Vault Pro. Vault Pro offers a lot more than Vault Basic, allowing more control of your data and how the data is consumed. Also, there are many automated workflows built in VP.

I am not a Vault expert. I think I have said much more than my limited understanding can afford. Please feel free to ask questions on Vault forum (https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/vault-forum/bd-p/101).

Many thanks!

[todd_cannon]

That's a fair answer and I will take your suggestion and move it over to the Vault forum. Thanks.

[pcrawley]

I know you addressed your question to the awesome @johnsonshiue - I hope you don’t mind me butting in with a reply. 

Vault - regardless of version - manages files. The files can be anything you like; Word, Excel, Text files, photos, Inventor, AutoCAD, design data xml, iLogic rules… It really doesn’t matter as long as it’s a file on your hard drive.

What makes Vault truely useful over Windows File Manager is that it understands file-relationships like Inventor parts & assemblies, or AutoCAD and Xrefs. This understanding is how Vault can successfully move & rename files without breaking anything. And that’s common across the whole Vault range. 

The difference between the Vault versions only relates to features in Vault - not the file types it can handle. (Actually, that’s not quite true - I believe you need Vault Professional if you want to manage Solidworks and ProE files. You can check those file-types in manually, but Vault won’t understand the relationships. The add-in for those files can’t have been cheap to develop!) 

Vault Basic is a “work in progress” tool - it has no concept of Revision control. Workgroup and Professional add things like Revision management and lifecycles - but these features don’t change the type of files they can handle. 

[todd_cannon]

Thank you for the reply Peter. I understand the differences between the different Vault versions. I was actually able to get a demo installed for Vault Pro, but my company balked at buying it because they also have Teamcenter and would prefer we use it. I don't want to get too deep into that discussion but, suffice it to say that we have Vault basic as part of our collection already. If I can get concurrent design capability with check in/out for my guys, it would be a big improvement over Windows File Explorer. So they better have a better argument than "I don't think the licensing will allow it".

Cheers,

Todd

[pcrawley]

Just in case anyone looking at this thread decides to have a go with Shared Projects, follow @Gabriel_Watson 's comments on this thread:  https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/inventor-forum/check-out-file-two-seconds-later-inventor-thinks-it-s-... 

[pumpkinboss]

Yep, and this is the dilemma I'm in right now.  Can't currently rely on model states because we don't have vault, and have a bunch of people who are vault frightened.

Another issue at hand, according to our adesk supplier, is that Autodesk does not officially support legacy projects.  So if you have a bug or something you need help with, they are not going to throw any resources into helping you out.  Anyone else know if this is true or not?

Clearly, adesk wants users using vault... I'm ok with that.  Now to convince these old timers.

[SBix26]

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@pumpkinboss wrote:

Can't currently rely on model states because we don't have vault...

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Don't understand this statement... what does vault have to do with model states?

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Sam B

Inventor Pro 2023 | Windows 10 Home 21H2

[Frederick_Law]

Also Vault maintain realtime sync of all files without overhead of other realtime sync program.

This allow files on multiple client computers.

Otherwise most will keep files on network location which has it's own can of worm.

[pumpkinboss]

Yeah... good question.

If you click on the link that pcrawley provided (a thread that I started), this bug appears to be an issue with Legacy project files and model states. It doesn't appear to happen all the time, but when it does it pretty much locks up your assembly for further editing.  This is the issue that caused me to be informed of the fact that adesk does not support Legacy projects. 

The only way around it, currently, is to use vault or not use model states.

[pcrawley]

@pumpkinboss - It's beginning to sound like "let's dig a massive hole and fill it with workarounds because someone is scared of a purpose-built "free" tool which solves all the problems".  Vault is only scary because they don't know it.  All new things are difficult the first few times you try them, but before long, you start getting comments like "how did we manage before Vault?"

Ditch the shared projects - they're obsolete for very good reasons.  Bite the bullet.  Use Vault.

[pumpkinboss]

Yeah. That's what I said.  I am not the one in charge of making the decision to go to vault. If it were up to me, we'd have vault! Now the real question is, what does your comment have to do with the issue at hand? Nothing.  Legacy projects are still a thing.  And model states don't work with it! I'd be happier if adesk had just removed legacy altogether. But they didn't. So I'm stuck in a company that insists on using them!