Flanged pipe style with separate flanges on elbows and tees

[hofmannQ6HLD]

Hi everyone,

I'm currently trying to create to a pipe style (for testing purposes at the moment, to see what Inventor T&P is capable of) which is flanged. I don't know how the piping parts are structured in the ANSI ASME standards but when working with our european EN standards there are no elbows or tees with flanges defined as one part. Elbows and tees (EN 10253) and flanges (EN 1092) are separate parts to order and so should they be in my BOM I will finally pull from the pipe assembly. So the structure of a created route should like in attached Picture 1.

I browsed the web whether this is possible with T&P and found the following blog post suggesting it's possible:

https://beinginventive.typepad.com/being-inventive/2011/05/end-treatments-for-custom-components-to-b... 

So I created a pipe iPart, an elbow and a flange and authored them EXACTLY as shown in this blog post, published them in my custom content center library, created a T&P style using them and selecting the appropriate options. (Picture 2)

So far, so good, but when I populate my route using the style, Inventor doesn't put any flanges. (Picture 3) I played around with different end threatment options for the parts a lot during the last days but it all didn't help. I'm still not able to make it work. Am I missing something or is Inventor T&P not capable of what I want to do?

Thanks in advance for any help

Matthias

PS: I'm tagging @cbenner here because I saw you giving a lot of good advice in other T&P related threads

[hofmannQ6HLD]

Hi everyone,

I'm currently trying to create to a pipe style (for testing purposes at the moment, to see what Inventor T&P is capable of) which is flanged. I don't know how the piping parts are structured in the ANSI ASME standards but when working with our european EN standards there are no elbows or tees with flanges defined as one part. Elbows and tees (EN 10253) and flanges (EN 1092) are separate parts to order and so should they be in my BOM I will finally pull from the pipe assembly. So the structure of a created route should like in attached Picture 1.

I browsed the web whether this is possible with T&P and found the following blog post suggesting it's possible:

https://beinginventive.typepad.com/being-inventive/2011/05/end-treatments-for-custom-components-to-b... 

So I created a pipe iPart, an elbow and a flange and authored them EXACTLY as shown in this blog post, published them in my custom content center library, created a T&P style using them and selecting the appropriate options. (Picture 2)

So far, so good, but when I populate my route using the style, Inventor doesn't put any flanges. (Picture 3) I played around with different end threatment options for the parts a lot during the last days but it all didn't help. I'm still not able to make it work. Am I missing something or is Inventor T&P not capable of what I want to do?

Thanks in advance for any help

Matthias

PS: I'm tagging @cbenner here because I saw you giving a lot of good advice in other T&P related threads

[cbenner]

@hofmannQ6HLD 

Hello!  I am sorry for the delay in responding.

I am trying to understand what you are after.  You want the elbow in your pipe style to be one single piece including the flanges?  Like this?

But the pipe should NOT have the flange built in, but rather added as a separate piece for the BOM?

I just want to make sure I understand your intent before I give you bad advice.  🙂

[cbenner]

@hofmannQ6HLD 

Hello!  I am sorry for the delay in responding.

I am trying to understand what you are after.  You want the elbow in your pipe style to be one single piece including the flanges?  Like this?

But the pipe should NOT have the flange built in, but rather added as a separate piece for the BOM?

I just want to make sure I understand your intent before I give you bad advice.  🙂

[hofmannQ6HLD]

@cbenner 

Thank you for answering

No, I want the flanges to be separate parts in the BOM in any case. Separate flanges for the pipes and for the elbows/tees...

Just as shown in the Picture 1 I attached to my first post.

[hofmannQ6HLD]

@cbenner 

Thank you for answering

No, I want the flanges to be separate parts in the BOM in any case. Separate flanges for the pipes and for the elbows/tees...

Just as shown in the Picture 1 I attached to my first post.

[cbenner]

@hofmannQ6HLD 

Thank you for clarifying, I think I get it now.

How have you authored the flanges.  My thought is that one end should be authored as Butt Weld (to the pipe or fitting), and the other end as Flanged (Face to Face).  I would also suggest authoring the elbows as Butt Weld so that the flange and elbows have the same end treatment.  I don't know if T&P can be made to insert these automatically on the elbows, but it should place a flange pair at any pipe break.  

[cbenner]

@hofmannQ6HLD 

Thank you for clarifying, I think I get it now.

How have you authored the flanges.  My thought is that one end should be authored as Butt Weld (to the pipe or fitting), and the other end as Flanged (Face to Face).  I would also suggest authoring the elbows as Butt Weld so that the flange and elbows have the same end treatment.  I don't know if T&P can be made to insert these automatically on the elbows, but it should place a flange pair at any pipe break.  

[hofmannQ6HLD]

@cbenner 

Thanks for the ideas on end threatments. I tried them but it still doesn't work. I'm concerned that Inventor T&P simply isn't able to do that. It seems to generally expect the elbow/tee... to have flanges itself.

Does @Mark.Lancaster have any idea on that?

[hofmannQ6HLD]

@cbenner 

Thanks for the ideas on end threatments. I tried them but it still doesn't work. I'm concerned that Inventor T&P simply isn't able to do that. It seems to generally expect the elbow/tee... to have flanges itself.

Does @Mark.Lancaster have any idea on that?

[cbenner]

@hofmannQ6HLD 

I have done piping like this with butt weld flanges many times... I can't imagine what might be stopping you.  Would you be able to share your parts so I can look at them?

[cbenner]

@hofmannQ6HLD 

I have done piping like this with butt weld flanges many times... I can't imagine what might be stopping you.  Would you be able to share your parts so I can look at them?

[hofmannQ6HLD]

@cbenner 

Thanks, I attached the files as a ZIP container.

The automatic placement of flanges at a pipe break (between two pipe segments) works perfectly, it's just about the flanges on elbows.

[hofmannQ6HLD]

@cbenner 

Thanks, I attached the files as a ZIP container.

The automatic placement of flanges at a pipe break (between two pipe segments) works perfectly, it's just about the flanges on elbows.

[cbenner · Accepted solution]

@hofmannQ6HLD 

Thank you for sharing your part models.  It is very helpful to be able to look a these and make sure there are no problems.

In your case, your parts are correct.  But since the elbow and flange are both authored as Butt Weld, which is the correct way, the flange will NOT be added automatically.  Here is what I recommend.

After you create and populate your routes, you can place the flanges using the "Insert"option, on either side of the elbows.  Are you familiar with using the Insert?  This will place (1) flange between the pipe and the elbow, right where they meet.  For a flange pair, you will have to do this twice at each connection.  Make sure that you have the butt weld end closest to the elbow on one end, and the pipe on the other, so that the flange faces are contacting in the middle.  If I can find some time tomorrow, and if you need it, I may be able to do a short video of this.  But the good news is, your fittings are correct. 

Good luck!

[cbenner · Accepted solution]

@hofmannQ6HLD 

Thank you for sharing your part models.  It is very helpful to be able to look a these and make sure there are no problems.

In your case, your parts are correct.  But since the elbow and flange are both authored as Butt Weld, which is the correct way, the flange will NOT be added automatically.  Here is what I recommend.

After you create and populate your routes, you can place the flanges using the "Insert"option, on either side of the elbows.  Are you familiar with using the Insert?  This will place (1) flange between the pipe and the elbow, right where they meet.  For a flange pair, you will have to do this twice at each connection.  Make sure that you have the butt weld end closest to the elbow on one end, and the pipe on the other, so that the flange faces are contacting in the middle.  If I can find some time tomorrow, and if you need it, I may be able to do a short video of this.  But the good news is, your fittings are correct. 

Good luck!

[hofmannQ6HLD]

@cbenner 

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@cbenner wrote:

If I can find some time tomorrow, and if you need it, I may be able to do a short video of this. 

---

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Thanks for the offer, it's not necessary. I figured it out myself.

What I thought of is another workaround that needs less clicks: Authoring the ends of the elbow as "flanged" (although they don't have one) and at each end, define another connection (connection 3 and 4) facing backwards, also defined as "flanged".

When populating the route Inventor automatically puts a flange at the pipe end (and - if defined - a gasket). At the free connections 3 and 4, one can now place another flange:

I will try it out if I have enough free time during the next days 😉

But I'm not sure if this workaround will result in some unwanted side effects during the further process to create workshop drawings and pipe isometries.

[hofmannQ6HLD]

@cbenner 

---

@cbenner wrote:

If I can find some time tomorrow, and if you need it, I may be able to do a short video of this. 

---

---

---

Thanks for the offer, it's not necessary. I figured it out myself.

What I thought of is another workaround that needs less clicks: Authoring the ends of the elbow as "flanged" (although they don't have one) and at each end, define another connection (connection 3 and 4) facing backwards, also defined as "flanged".

When populating the route Inventor automatically puts a flange at the pipe end (and - if defined - a gasket). At the free connections 3 and 4, one can now place another flange:

I will try it out if I have enough free time during the next days 😉

But I'm not sure if this workaround will result in some unwanted side effects during the further process to create workshop drawings and pipe isometries.

[cbenner]

@hofmannQ6HLD 

That sounds like an interesting workaround.  Tube & Pipe is a great product, but it does have limitations.  I can only say that the development team have been working on improvements over the last few years.  Sometimes a workaround is the best way to move forward.

Don't give up on it though, it still does a lot of good things!  I recommend using the >>Ideas Forum<< to share your ideas for enhancements, and if you look up at the "sticky" posts in this forum, there is a post about how to join the Inventor Beta program.  In there you can really share your thoughts directly with the product team.  Good luck in your T&P journey and don't hesitate to come back here and ask questions or even share victories!

[cbenner]

@hofmannQ6HLD 

That sounds like an interesting workaround.  Tube & Pipe is a great product, but it does have limitations.  I can only say that the development team have been working on improvements over the last few years.  Sometimes a workaround is the best way to move forward.

Don't give up on it though, it still does a lot of good things!  I recommend using the >>Ideas Forum<< to share your ideas for enhancements, and if you look up at the "sticky" posts in this forum, there is a post about how to join the Inventor Beta program.  In there you can really share your thoughts directly with the product team.  Good luck in your T&P journey and don't hesitate to come back here and ask questions or even share victories!