Derived part not updating appearance/"Use color override from source component"

[DRoam]

I have several derived parts that came from the same multi-body part. Each of the derives has "Use color override from source component" checked. I have not applied any appearance overrides to the derived geometry. I changed the appearance of several of the bodies in the source multi-body part, but the recipient derived parts are not updating with this change, even though "use override from source" is checked. If I edit the derive and then say "OK" without changing anything, the appearance then updates correctly. But I don't want to have to do this for every part.

Is there a way I can force an "appearance refresh" so I don't have to do this for every part one by one?

I already tried a Rebuild All and that had no effect.

Thanks for any suggestions.

[johnsonshiue]

Hi Derek,

The behavior sounds like a bug. Please share the files here or send them to me directly (johnson.shiue@autodesk.com). I would like to understand the behavior better.

Many thanks! Stay safe!

[DRoam]

Hi Johnson, thanks for the reply. I hope you're staying healthy and safe as well.

Please see the attached sample dataset which exhibits the behavior for me in Inventor 2020.2.1.

To reproduce, open "Multibody.ipt" and select one of the solids in the Browser, and use the Appearance dropdown to change its appearance. You can do the same for the other solid. Then open "Multibody.iam", and you'll see the appearance hasn't changed as it should have; it's still the original appearance.

Now open one of the parts. Right-click the Derive feature and edit it. The part will then take on the correct appearance, and clicking "OK" without changing anything will retain the correctly-updated appearance.

Is there any way to cause this "appearance refresh" for each part without editing and OK-ing the Derive feature for every part?

[johnsonshiue]

Hi Derek,

Many thanks for sharing the files! I think I remember the behavior now. This has something to do with how Inventor manages the "Part Design View" and what it means by color overrides. In Master Design View, there are no overrides. Essentially, the color change is considered as is or pre-existing. In your case, the color change happens in Master Design View. As a result, Derive isn't aware of such change and it does not raise the update pending flag.

Try this.

1) In the Multibody.ipt, activate a non-Master Design View and apply color override to the Cube body.

2) Open Cube.ipt and edit Derive -> change design view to the active design view in Multibody.ipt. The color will carried over.

3) Go back to Multibody.ipt and change the body color to another color.

You will see the derive part needs to be updated.

This behavior is consistent with Derive Assembly and Derive Part. I know it is a bit confusing, particularly the definition of Part Master Design View. I have not mentioned that feature color and face color are not controlled by Design View at all. It gets disoriented fairly quickly.

To sum up, I suggest you activate Part Master Design View, when editing geometry and changing the model extensively. When you are done with the design and you want to apply colors, activate or create a non-Master Design View. This will make the behaviors much easier to understand.

Many thanks!

[DRoam]

Hi Johnson, thanks for the detailed reply. This definitely does seem convoluted. But I'm trying to see if we can make it work as it is now.

But after some testing, I'm finding undependable results, even using a non-master View Rep. This was my workflow:

1. Edit Derive feature in Cube.ipt and Cylinder.ipt to use "Front" view rep of Multibody.ipt (associative NOT checked, because that would force all solids to derive in). After changing to "Front", turn off the inclusion of the opposite solid that got turned on when "Front" was chosen (e.g., for Cube.ipt, turn off the inclusion of the "Cylinder" solid body).
2. Open Multibody.ipt and activate the "Front" view rep
3. Change appearance of Cube and/or Cylinder solid within Multibody.ipt with "Front" view rep active
4. Open Multibody.iam

But even with using the non-Master "Front" view rep, the "Update" icon does not activate, and the appearances have not updated correctly. Even if I specifically open Cube.ipt and Cylinder.ipt, they do not update, and the Update button is not active. For me, the behavior is the same as before. Even with "Front" being used for the Derive, I still have to edit the Derive and "OK" with no changes to get the appearance change to carry over.

So, just for testing purposes, I tried to check on "Associative" for the Derive feature. This was my workflow:

1. Within Multibody.iam, turn off the visibility of Cylinder:1 altogether (in preparation for the fact that we're about to display both solids within Cube.ipt).
2. Open Cube.ipt, and edit the Derive feature.
3. Check "Associative" to ON for the Front view rep. Commit the change. Both solids should now be displayed in Cube.ipt.
4. Open Multibody.ipt and change the appearance of both solids.
5. Open Multibody.iam.

But even after checking "Associative" on, the appearances do not update and the "Update" icon is not active! Only if I explicitly open "Cube.ipt" does the "Update" button finally activate. After clicking it, the color finally updates correctly. But this is hardly better than before. It's not feasible for me to have to guess which parts need to be updated, open each one individually, and update it. Plus this isn't a realistic workflow anyway, because we can't realistically keep up with one view rep within Multibody.ipt for every solid it has (some of our multibodies have dozens of solids). So checking associative isn't a viable option, anyway.

Am I doing something wrong, or can you reproduce these inconsistencies as well?

[johnsonshiue]

Hi Derek,

Many thanks for sharing the findings! The first portion is probably as designed, since the Design View is associative. But the second portion is wrong. The assembly should have update pending. I need to work with the project team to understand the behavior better.

Thanks again!

[johnsonshiue]

Hi Derek,

The issue exhibited in the second workflow has been reported as INVGEN-38937.

Many thanks!

[lena.talkhina]

Hello @DRoam  !

Great to see you here on Inventor Forum.

Did you find a solution?
If yes, please click on the "Accept as Solution" button as then also other community users can easily find and benefit from the information.
If not please don't hesitate to give an update here in your topic so all members know what ́s the progression on your question is and what might be helpful to achieve what you ́re looking for. 🙂

[DRoam]

Hi @lena.talkhina, thanks for checking in. No, this is still an open issue. There is still a defect going on that hasn't been logged so it can be fixed.

As Johnson said, Part appearance is not tied to the Design View. It is independent and separate from the Design View. So, the only thing in the Derive dialog box that should affect Appearance is the "Use color override from source component" checkbox. And if it is checked, we would expect for the derived part to "Use the color override from the source component". But as we saw, it does not. Only a geometry update will cause that setting to be respected, and this does not make sense. A geometry update should not be required to make the appearance update as specified.

I think this should be logged as a defect so it can be fixed. If "Use color override from source component" is checked, then the derived part should "Use the color override from the source component" -- regardless of which View Rep is chosen and whether or not it is associative, because Appearance for Parts has nothing to do with View Rep.

[lena.talkhina]

@DRoam thank you for coming back and share more information about your question.

And I am sorry I can't answer, my knowledge is not enough here.

Did you think about raising a support case?

[johnsonshiue]

Hi Guys,

It was indeed reported as INVGEN-38937. We are working on the fix.

Many thanks!

[DRoam]

Thanks, Johnson, I appreciate it!

[johnsonshiue · Accepted solution]

Hi Derek,

The issue has been resolved on our internal build targeting future release. Unfortunately, the fix is not suitable for porting backward. So, it will not be in any update to 2021 and earlier.

For testing purpose, please check the Beta schedule on Inventor Beta site. It should be in the next Alpha/Beta build.

Many thanks!

[DRoam]

Hi Johnson, wow, fast turnaround on this! Sad to hear it can't be ported to 2020/2021, I wish we didn't have to wait that long. But I'm glad it will work correctly going forward. Many thanks for getting it resolved!

[6.Day.Old.Filet-O-Fish]

Glad I found this thread because I think I'm having the same issue. Sorry to hear there's no fixing on 2020. Just add it to the list of reasons to try to get us on 2022 😞

We have to add vendor files to our models that consist of hundreds of parts, so we typically make derived versions of the part. We then have to modify the derived versions just a little (snip 1-6" off the bottom or so). Once we do this, the derived part's appearance changes from multi-colored to a single color. This irks our engineers a lot (way more than it should). The vendor part gets used in several models and the changes that need to be made to it are unique to each model it's placed in so our choice is to ignore (not something engineers do) or cut the part as needed, derive it, break the link, then undo the cut on the master; repeat.

[andrewdroth]

This doesn't seem to have been fixed yet as of IV 2023.2.

Seems like the option in the derived part is now called "Link face color from source component" now.

It really is a pain to edit each derived part feature to get the color to match. Even Re-build all doesn't force it.

[johnsonshiue]

Hi Andrew,

The option does persist on a per Derive feature basis. Also, the default can be set in Tools -> App Options -> Part -> check "Link face color from source component." The same option is also available in Make Components and Make Parts, as well as Derive.

For the already created Derive features, the option has to be changed within the Derive feature individually.

Many thanks!

[danunnez]

Hi Johnson!

The problem is that in order to effectively update the part the user must in-context open the part (in an assembly environment) and then edit the derive feature itself in order to summon the update. It should update along with everything else when the user runs a part update, simple!

Thanks!!

[johnsonshiue]

Hi! If I understood your description correctly, it could be a bug. Please share the files in zip here or send it to me directly johnson.shiue@autodesk.com. I would like to understand the behavior better. It should just work. There should not be a need to edit the Derive feature in order to update the appearance.

Many thanks!

[eighty6gt]

well i'll be dipped, here I am struggling with this this morning and who do I find with the exact same problem. @andrewdroth 

Also I clicked reply to his post, but it placed my reply at the bottom, I guess replies aren't threaded on this board.   It didn't quote his post, either, which I see at times.

Looking forward to a solution!  Thanks everyone.