Creating a frame

Creating a frame

Anonymous
Not applicable
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Message 1 of 24

Creating a frame

Anonymous
Not applicable

This is likely to be another 'how many ways can we skin this cat' type of thing. I'm making a small frame that will have another piece inserted into it during the print process. Simplified, it looks like this:

 

frame1.png

 

And a closeup of the inset part:

frame2.png

 

When I'm making this, I break it up into three "layers", the bottom part, a center (which is smaller dor the inset) and then the top, like this:

 

frame3.png

 

The bottom and top get an inner chamfer and all three together get the outside rounded with a fillet. For the most part, this works. Especially when the bottom layer has other stuff, like sometimes instead of it being a six sided frame, I will fill the hole with some sort of design, then the center one and the top one which are just a six sided frame.

 

However, the one thing that annoys me is if I forget to do something on that bottom layer, or if I need to change it a bit, many times it affects the next two layers to the point where I need to completely delete them and redraw. So my question is, is there a better way to do this? Or what I'm doing the right way to go about it, keeping in mind that the bottom layer can be different in the middle, but the outline is the same as the rest.

 

Edited to add ipt file ...

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Message 2 of 24

CCarreiras
Mentor
Mentor

Hi!

 

 

Which modifications you have to make that will afect the part? Can you give me an example?

CCarreiras

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Message 3 of 24

Anonymous
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In the above example, I purposely left out a small loop at the top of the frame. Think of a loop that you'd use to run a split ring through or lanyard. When doing it in the three layers, I have to create that loop on each layer to encompase the full thickness of the frame (and later use a fillet to round it off.) And since each layer is dependent on the one below, if I make a mistake, or I change the shape of the loop, or even the shape of the frame itself, Inventor starts telling me it has unresolved dependencies and what not. Usually I just delete those upper layers and redraw them again.

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Message 4 of 24

CCarreiras
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Mentor

Ok... i see (i think 🙂 ).

Let me trying to do a model with independent layers.

 

Q:

They have always 6 sides?

Sometimes the rip can be near one side or other? Or is always centered between layers?

                        If they are not always centered... you need the chanfers at the same level in both "layers", or they are always at 45 deg?

Later you will build a assembly based in the six parts, correct?

Frame with 3mm!!??? wow!!! 🙂

 

Version 2015?

 

Advice: Always constrain your sketches... always.. always...

CCarreiras

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Message 5 of 24

Anonymous
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For what I'm doing right now, they're 6-sided. Could be 8, could be less, but no less than 4. And the rip is always centered. As for the chamfers, they don't always have to be 45 degrees. In fact, the original test I did, the center piece was 1mm while the top and bottom were 0.9mm, which made the chamfer at a different angle. So that's a bit of a variable based on the design.

 

The assembly part is 2 pieces, this frame, and the insert that goes inside. When printing it, the inside piece is done separately, then the frame is printed. The printer is set to stop at a specific height (bottom layer + center layer heights), the insert piece dropped in, and then the printer continues to print the top part of the frame, encapsulating the insert's edges. And with the last test print, the layers were 0.9mm, 1mm, and 0.9mm for a total tickness of 2.8mm.

 

Since I want to move away from SketchUp, I'm slowly recreating my models in Inventor 2015, partly to also learn the program. Which brings me to your next statement: if I knew how to constrain the individual sketches, I would. 🙂

 

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Message 6 of 24

CCarreiras
Mentor
Mentor

Hi!

 

🙂

 

Ok... just wait a few... i have your almost ready...

 

You can constrain sketches with dimension and geometric constrains. The geometry goes from green to violet (kind of vilolet 🙂 ), and in the lower right corner you have that info when in sketch enviroment. The dedrees of freedom until all the geometry become "Fully constrained".

 

Clipboard03.png

End of lesson nº 1... now i will finished your model...

CCarreiras

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Message 7 of 24

Anonymous
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Well, when I draw the hexagon, the lines are blue, and I have dimensions listed on them. I take it that is not the same then? All these different colors ...

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Message 8 of 24

JDMather
Consultant
Consultant

In addition to dimension - you have to add a horizontal or vertical constraint to one of the polygon sides.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Autodesk Inventor 2019 Certified Professional
Autodesk AutoCAD 2013 Certified Professional
Certified SolidWorks Professional


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Message 9 of 24

Anonymous
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@Anonymous wrote:

In addition to dimension - you have to add a horizontal or vertical constraint to one of the polygon sides.


Ok, is that just drawing a construction line along an axis and constrain it to that?

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Message 10 of 24

Anonymous
Not applicable

Or a vertical constraint to either the hexagon's upper or lower corner I suppose ...

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Message 11 of 24

CCarreiras
Mentor
Mentor

Hi!

 

I think this way you will control better the geometry of your frame part. Check the part attached.

 

Since you're start always from the same kind of geometry, why not create a parametric model?

Tell me the rules and we evolve from this model to a "magic Frame"!! 🙂

 

Check the video, i think you will be surprised how easy is change things.

 

http://autode.sk/1D2GJnL

 

If you want, i can help you to create a fully parameter part. That's your call.

 

So...

it can be 4, 5 or 6 faces?

Angled chanfers

 

...More rules? 

CCarreiras

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Message 12 of 24

Anonymous
Not applicable

Think you might have a small issue:

 

screencast.png

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Message 13 of 24

CCarreiras
Mentor
Mentor

HI!

 

Sorry, seems the video is broken... try this link:

 

https://screencast.autodesk.com/Embed/Timeline/61c73ae7-8968-4954-83b2-ccbf1de1aaea

 

Enjoy..

 

CCarreiras

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Message 14 of 24

Anonymous
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Ok, trying to edit the updated file you gave me. This has to be something wrong on my part but when I go to edit Sketch1 to add the loop (to hang off of), as soon as I exit that, the extrusion is no longer right, the loop hole isn't there. I don't know how to fix the extrusion profile so it knocks out the loop. So my usual course of action is to delete the extrusion and recreate it, however when I do that, Sketch2 loses its constraints and I have no idea how to fix that.

 

This is what I mean with 'if I forget to do something early on', I don't know how to recover/correct the subsequent steps after this.

 

loop.png

 

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Message 15 of 24

Anonymous
Not applicable

Ah, I see what you mean with the parametric settings. Yeah, that would make things easier in the long run when I need to make different sizes or thicknesses. But how do you change how many sides the polygon has? In this example it's 6-sided, but what if I want a square 4-sides, or 8-sides, or more?

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Message 16 of 24

JDMather
Consultant
Consultant

@Anonymous wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

In addition to dimension - you have to add a horizontal or vertical constraint to one of the polygon sides.


Ok, is that just drawing a construction line along an axis and constrain it to that?


No, you do not need to add any construction lines, only a constraint.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Autodesk Inventor 2019 Certified Professional
Autodesk AutoCAD 2013 Certified Professional
Certified SolidWorks Professional


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Message 17 of 24

Anonymous
Not applicable

Got it! See, things I learn. Didn't realize I could do that ... thought I always had to have something to constrain to, like a construct line or another edge ...

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Message 18 of 24

CCarreiras
Mentor
Mentor

Hi!

 

The goal is not edit the model in the "traditional way", but simply change parameters.
Save a copy of my model and study the concept. Change what you need. If you break it, start from a fresh copy.

 

You saw the video? Understood the difference in construction? If so, you realize that you must have a different approach when executing changes. Why delete the extrusions and do it again? It's better to change the parameters instead. Then, make other operations if you need.

 

Every time you make a operation (extrude, Chamfer, fillet, etc etc) and place dimensions in the sketch, inventor will add parameters d0, d1, d2, d3, etc etc. You can find these parameters in the fx chart (see image below).you can change the parameters directly in the chart, or editing sketches and operations.
Tip:You can rename the parameters to find them easily.

 

The first step for you is; learn how to constrain sketches.
Tip: When you open the first sketch, you only have a fixed yellow point. All the geometry that you draw is free in space, you must give some relation to that point (dimensions and/or constraints) to fully constrain the sketches.
After you have solids, you can project edges for new sketches to constrain geometry. that's why yu delete geometry after, will affect operations below. Don't delete, edit instead.

Question: and if you delete by mistake that yellow fixed point? How to bring it back? 🙂 (Of course we can always perform a undo, but if it is too late for that? What to do?)

 

Ahead... I will update your model to support choose 4 to 8 sides (is enough 8?), plus variable chamfers.

I will have to change the model. Try to understand this last I gave you, the next will be more complex.

 

Are You interested to build your parametric model? If so, there's more rules to apply to the model? Tell us...

 

 PARMETER TABLE

Clipboard04.png

CCarreiras

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Message 19 of 24

Anonymous
Not applicable

Oh I understood your video and how it would help in changing the model later. I don't quite know how to get there, but that's something I plan on learning/figuring out, hopefully with your help.

 

However, my other post, about adding the loop to the model, is before getting to the parametric part. That's where I fail to get it working. That's what I mean with me getting stuck and not knowing what to do other than recreating the parts that broke when I added the loop.

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Message 20 of 24

CCarreiras
Mentor
Mentor

Hi!

 

I'm not understanding your"loop issue". Can you try to explain?

Maybe a draw will hep me, i'm lost in what youre trying to achieve...

CCarreiras

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