Conflicting constraint error messages issue/bug

[Jonathan.WVB]

Hi, first of all this looks like a common bug in the latest versions (2021/2022), there is an issue where if I have a conflicting/missing constraints in an assembly all the next constraints I try to create throws an error message asking the so know accept/cancel/suppress action, even if the constraints have no relationship with the conflicts at, if they was related to conflict would be correct but this happens to all of them. And when there is any error (missing ipart member in factory for example) the constraints keeps false alarming errors. Is there any fix or setting to solve this?

[j.palmeL29YX]

Without knowing your assembly it is hard (or impossible) to guess what is going on with your file ...

[JDMather]

Attach assembly here that exhibits this behavior.

[Gabriel_Watson]

For sanity, you will want this setting on to avoid receiving too many error messages before you fix constraints you already know are broken (under Tools tab > Application Options > Prompts):

[Jonathan.WVB]

There is the assembly, that is a not complex one, and i can always recreate teh error in a simpler assembly btw, @Gabriel_Watson thanks for the tip, but that option is already active, the problem remains.

[Gabriel_Watson]

Deleting/suppressing the symmetry constraint I was able to add new constraints later on. Sometimes the constraint problem is big enough that Inventor does that and stops you from adding any further. The relationship does not seem sick though, and the geometry is all fine (CTRL+F7to check, then Rebuild All just in case, did not change anything).

[Jonathan.WVB]

Yeah I've seen that deleting/suppressing shuts up those error messages, in the attached video sent before I recorded this. But this is happening in every assembly, with every single error, with every wrong relationship, even with components that doesn't have nothing to do with each other at all. In older versions of inventor this wasn't happening. Only in the 2022 I noticed this but heard about the same problem from other designers. For me, this sounds like the "Don't prompt for for existing errors" setting is not working anymore.

[Gabriel_Watson]

That's a good question for the devs, @sundars or @johnsonshiue might know if anything changed from last versions to the latest ones. I haven't noticed yet but I'm more of a Vault user than Inventor.

[sundars]

Hi @Jonathan.WVB 

I cant seem to think of anything that might cause a behavioral change - atleast not off the top of my head. But that doesnt mean that there is not an issue here. The constraint solver probably might have some instability in its compute.

However, in this case, the error seems to indicate that the sketch failed to resolve due to some missing references - that could mean that it's dependencies did not compute or failed to compute.

I noticed that if I suppress Mate 14, it succeeds. I wonder if they both conflict because they directly or indirectly reference the same geoms. If I highlight the constraints, they seem to be highlighting the same geoms.

So, couple of questions

1. Was it working before and when you opened it in 2021/2022 and updated it failed

    - if so, do you have the model before the error happened

2. Or, did you create this from scratch

    - if so, do you have other examples? - or steps to recreate the problem from scratch 🙂

I started looking at this late Friday. I will look at it again more closely next week - but in the meantime, if you have any further input let me know.

Thanks and have a great weekend.

-shiva

[Jonathan.WVB]

Hi, I created the assembly from scratch, and the steps to recreate are quite simple: Create a assembly, insert any working constraint plus one or more not-working constraints, and them when you try to create any new relationship the errors don't stop appearing until you solve the sick constraints (you can see that when you suppress a constraint it does execute but still showing error messages). As I said, the problem it's not the constraints itself, but the error messages, because this happens not only with constraints but with any design error in an assembly. In older versions, when the "Don't prompt for existing problems" the error messages are shown once per doc update, now even with the option enabled them are shown at every single action. I'm using inventor since 2012 version and this behavior wasn't there before.

[sundars]

Hi @Jonathan.WVB 

Thanks for the clarification. I think I understand the error issue but let me confirm.  See attached sample and try to constrain the two cylinders and it would fail.

Steps:

1. create a simple assembly with 2 boxes

2. create one good constrain (say 2 faces of the box)

3. create on sick constraint between the two boxes

4. now place 2 different parts

5. try to constrain them and it always fails 

I went all the way back to 2018 and the behavior is that it always fails on step 5 - its as though it never honors the "dont show message for pre-existing problems".

As a user, I would have thought that the first failure in step 3 should not affect how i create a different constraint on two different parts. However, I think our constraint solver looks at the overall system when solving and probably not smart enough to ignore the previous error.

Is this what you are seeing and referring to?

Thanks

-shiva

[Jonathan.WVB]

Hi, yes! That's exactly what i mean. This is the problem I was training about, sorry for not reading the notification before, is there any way to fix this or is not known bug? I mean, the design doctor have to understand the relationships between  sick and non-sick actions, right? Can anyone tag some dev here?

[sundars]

Hi @Jonathan.WVB 

 I agree that the behavior is weird. Now that we are on the same page i know what the issue is. 

You are already talking to a DEV - moi!! 😀 I will look into it again and also discuss this with the tech who owns the feature and get bqck to you.

Thanks

shiva

[Jonathan.WVB]

Oh, sorry for that so haha, thatnks for the reply! I'll wait for any return them.

[sundars]

Hi @Jonathan.WVB 

I did some more investigation and found that the behavior of the constraints changed sometime in 2017 timeframe. I found the change which caused the regression - essentially the "do not show me messages for pre-existing problems" was not being treated correctly. This resulted in any create or edit constraint to throw messages if the model had other sick or unhealthy or unsolved constraints. Managing constraint failures are tricky. Changing one might cause some other related constraint to fail and i think finding the right balance to show or not show error messages so they are not 'in-your-face' is tricky.

I think the logic should be something like what's shown below: 

    1. new constraint - always show error message if constraint fails

    2. edit existing constraint

I have created a defect for this - INVGEN-59194 and assigned it to myself to investigate. I will keep this thread updated once we finalize a fix.

Thanks

-shiva

[Jonathan.WVB]

Hi @sundars , after a few years I was using another account Autodesk forums, and just spotted here almost on accident. Any updates on the investigation of the issue INVGEN-59194? I didn't find anything related to on the forums 

[sundars]

Hi @Jonathan.WVB 

Thanks for reaching out. Yeah, this was one a difficult one as it changed existing behaviors as we had to deal with different workflows. We went back and forth on this, but ultimately I believe it should behave better now. Please update to the latest versions (2023 - 2026) and try it again. I admit, there are some changes to the existing behavior so it may not be perfect, but hopefully it will be less of an inconvenience.

-shiva