Alternative to traditional 3D mouse

[cbenner]

Not strictly an Inventor question, but most Inventor users have some sort of 3D mouse, so...

I've used the traditional 3D Connexion style 3D mouse (space explorer, etc) for about the last 12 years or so, and slowly but surely have developed tennis elbow in both arms, the left being far worse than the right.  Doctor has said the rotational and twisting type motions associated with these devices are most likely to blame.  Left arm is so bad some days that lifting a coffee mug is painful.

Anyone have any suggestions for alternatives to this style of device?

[mcgyvr]

I haven't seen any actual alternatives that didn't include the same if not more movement than required by a 3d connexion..

Now... my $0.02.. 

I think your doctor is full of it/mistaken/pulling at straws (if they are placing a good chunk of blame towards the mouse/3d controller) or that your current style of movement is not what I would expect/needs correction..

My "elbow" is basically stationary/lacking any movement while operating either device.... I could glue my elbows/strap them down without skipping a beat on the 3d controller.. Now if we are talking about wrists/hands then sure.. but elbows.. I just don't see that..

[Cadmanto]

Hey Chris,

I have used one both at home and here at work for the last 6 years.  I would think that some of this has to do with how your arm is positioned.  My entire arm is resting on my desk surface and only my fingers are controlling it.  My palm is resting on the padded leading edge of the device.  I personally find mine to be ergonomically comfortable.

I have to ask, how many hours are you planted in front of the PC using it?   Are you cemented there or do you get up and walk around in your job?  If you are in that much pain, what about an elbow pad?  Like something from Dr. Scholls.

I am also an avid cyclist so when I am cycling hard, I am positioned with arms pretty much straight hands on the handlebars on a road bike.

Posture means everything not to suggest you aren't following good posture habits.  Just stating!!! 😏

Oh, and I have no pain at all in my arms, wrists or hands.

Windows 10 x64 -16GB Ram
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Inventor Pro 2020

[Curtis_Waguespack]

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@cbenner wrote:

Left arm is so bad some days that lifting a coffee mug is painful.

Anyone have any suggestions for alternatives to this style of device?

---

get one of these 😋... 

 

I don't actually have any suggestions, I barely use a 3D controller these days,  but I think if you use/used AutoCAD for a number of years (as many of us have)  it can contribute to these issues too..... its been a few years, but I did some ACAD customization work a while back where I had to do a lot of mousing in ACAD for several days in a row and my wrist & elbow began to hurt just as they did back in the day when I used it everyday... it kind of surprised me that it came back like that after all those years 🙄 ...  also maybe you actually have "shutter elbow" from too much shutter bugging!

[-niels-]

This is somewhat joking, somewhat serious:

Why not try using VR controllers without the headset?

It's somewhat joking as it doesn't seem the technology is entirely ready, but i've found some interesting google results though...
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&ei=7tSeXZT7MsKlwQL83Y3IBg&q=use+vr+controller+witho...

[cbenner]

Thanks for the replies guys:

• Posture is undoubtedly a factor, not gonna lie.
• Yes, my Dr. is a quack, but I can actually feel the tension on the tendons when I use this thing so there must be something to it.
• The beer hat thing is definitely an option, but if I go that route it won't be used for coffee! 😂
• Curtis, my new lens weighs about 5 pounds or so... I'm sure that ain't helping!
• VR for Inventor would be freaking awesome and I'd do that all day if it were ready.

My own solution, at least to test, is to build an angled platform for my space explorer so it can sit on a 45° angle and my arm won't be twisted as much... sort of like those vertical mouse things.  It's in the paint shop as we speak.  I'll use it for a while and report back how it's working.

[tiger4956]

I too have developed "Tennis Elbow" from excessive finger movement (clicking, scrolling, etc.) from using the 3D Connexion and the mouse. My doctor explained to me that your finger tendons eventually connect at the elbow - hence the "Tennis Elbow."  My 3D Connexion barely works with large drawings (it gets very jerky), so the options below are all BIG improvements, not just workarounds.

I've found three good alternatives:

1) X-Keys (xkeys.com) I have (2) Hardware Programmable USB Rear Hinge Foot Pedals with 3 switches on each unit. The foot pedals work extremely well and are seen by the system as a hardware keyboard/mouse.

Left Unit:  scroll up, middle mouse drag, scroll down (this takes care of zoom out, pan, zoom in)

Right Unit: double-click, click, right click 

X-keys also has a wide range of programmable key pads with up to 128 keys, I've programmed many autocad commands into the keys, but they've been replaced by Dragon Nuance voice command.

2) The second alternative is Dragon Nuance.  Quite a few years ago I had to buy the Medical version because at the time it was the only version with programmable commands.  I believe the newer versions are customizable for under $200.  You want to make sure it supports Dragon Scripting.  I can program almost any series of keystrokes and mouse clicks, it works EXTREMELY well.

3) Lastly, I'd like to recommend the Kennsington trackball slimblade or the "Expert Mouse Pro".  They are very precise and customizable.  With the options listed above, I hardly have to click any more.  The trackball is the easiest way to move the mouse across the screen.  A runner up is the Microsoft vertical mouse, but it's not as precise because you have to move the mouse further to get it to move on the screen, and then it overshoots the target.

[swalton]

Not much to add...

I found that vertical mice help.  I also will add a brace for wrist/forearm pain.  A bit of stretching/massage at various times during the day helped too.

I find that laptop keyboards and touchpads are worse than desktop components.

Finally, I have to spend time on the shop floor, so I get a bit of a break.

[CGBenner]

Well, it's been nearly two years since I posted this, and I no longer do CAD every day.  The pain has all but disappeared from my wrists and elbows.  That angled platform that I had built two years ago was working like a charm.  Unfortunately I no longer have access to be able to show a photo of it, but... any Inventor user worth his salt should be able to design up such a thing.  Mine was actually built from scraps in the welding shop where I used to work.

Thanks everyone for all of the ideas, maybe some day these tips will help someone else who has suffered repetitive injuries from CAD work.

[tiger4956]

Yes, I knew the post was old, but I wanted to help someone else who might
be searching for the same thing. I’m looking for a 3D connexion that
actually works with a large drawing.

[CGBenner]

@tiger4956 

I welcome your response.  I'm happy that you shared your ideas.  I just wanted to get back into the conversation.  🙂

[SharkDesign]

When I first started my career in CAD, I had so many issues. Mainly sore back and aching wrists. 

I ended up going to the physio and it turned out that I have a wonky pelvis. I now sit with one cheek on a folded towel and the other just normal and all my back pain is gone. 

My wrists is much more difficult to fix, although it is a lot better than they were.

In most cases your issues will be posture/how you sit. I can tell instantly if a desk is not the height I am used to by millimetres, because the pain starts to come back.

You should always use a desk that supports your full forearm for your mouse, corner desks are good for this. 

I switched to a huge mouse (google handshoe mouse) and an A3 paper sized mouse mat. Then whacked my mouse sensitivity down to force me to use my arm to use the mouse and not my wrist. 

Here's my number one tip though, and you might think this is crazy. 

Switch your middle and right mouse click with some third party software. 

This almost instantly relived my hand. The reason why is this:

Particularly in AutoCAD you spend a lot of time panning. To pan we hold down the middle mouse button and drag. The spring on this button is usually stronger than the normal buttons, so you are pushing down with more force and holding it there whilst panning. By switching the buttons you now use much less force AND you insure that your coworker can no longer use your computer! I've been doing this for about 13 years now and it only becomes confusing when you have to tell someone else which button they need to click to solve a problem!

I use X-button mouse control to switch them, other software may also be available. 

9 times out of 10 though, it's your posture and your setup causing the pain, and if you live in America, don't let your Doctor tell you that it's carpal tunnel. You'll have the surgery and 3 months later the pain will be back. It's almost always RSI.

[guido_66]

Hello Chris,

After 16 years of using Inventor and 3D connexion controllers daily  I have the same problem and symptoms, and have been diagnosed with a tennis elbow in my left arm.

When you talk about an angled platfrom, do you mean you tilted the 3D controller to the left? 30 degrees, 45 degrees, or even more?

I can easily have this made in house and will experiment a bit.

[CGBenner]

@guido_66 

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@guido_66 wrote:

Hello Chris,

After 16 years of using Inventor and 3D connexion controllers daily  I have the same problem and symptoms, and have been diagnosed with a tennis elbow in my left arm.

When you talk about an angled platfrom, do you mean you tilted the 3D controller to the left? 30 degrees, 45 degrees, or even more?

I can easily have this made in house and will experiment a bit.

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That is exactly right.  Our welder took two pieces out of the scrap metal bin, welded them at roughly 30 degrees (not very precisely, lol), smoothed off the edges, and painted it safety yellow... because that was the nearest paint color handy.  🙂  It worked fine for the 3D controller which had rubber grips on the bottom.  When we tried the same thing for my right-hand mouse, it kept sliding off... a minor problem.   Good luck!

[guido_66]

Great! I was already designing a prototype at 45 degrees:

I've changed it to 30 degrees and will have that made tomorrow as a starting point for a bit of experimenting.

No paint needed, mine will be stainless steel 😉

Edit: first prototype is on my desk

Next step: added wrist support and slightly modified prototype

Final step for now: new Spacemouse Compact and had a new support 3D printed in Ultrasint TPU 

 

 

It feels already way more comfortable than ever, so that must be a good sign.

 

[guido_66]

For anyone that's interested I've attached the part (made in Inventor 2019). If there will be an improved version I will make the walls thinner, to benefit a bit more from the elastic properties of Ultrasint TPU.