Adaptive Parts and Vault Copy Design Questions

[swalton]

I am using IV and Vault 2014.

I have an assembly with an adaptive part.  The adaptive part depends on projected geometry from other components in the assembly.  The adaptive parts updates as the parent components move/change size as expected.

If I use Vault's Copy-design command to make a copy of the assembly and the adaptive part at the same time, the new adaptive part does not update as the new assembly changes.  Note that I did not copy any of the components that provided the reference geometry for the adaptive part.

Is this the expected behavior?

It appears that the new adaptive part is maintaining a link to the old assembly.  How can I verify this without changing the old assembly?  Ideally I would like to show the source for each projected reference.

Is there a better method of re-linking the projected geometry in the adaptive part than editing the sketch and manually re-defining each reference in the model browser?  That workflow seems to delete any constraints between the existing sketch geometry and the re-defined geometry.  Is there a way to preserve the sketch constraints during the re-define process?

[hermitch]

Adaptivity been a mess every since!

Looks good on exibitions and marketing videos, but on my side never been usefull as a productive tool; -your example is a very good one why you´d better refrain from opening this box...

Master modelling/derived parts fit much better for what you are planning to do -as far as i fully understood your problem, but think so- because you always got full controll over all your parts and assemblies, while you can update the sources via design assistant very easy.

cheers

[Anonymous]

When we need to do this here, we make a copy of the adaptive part for the new assembly.

A part can only be adaptive in one assembly.

We don't use Vault, so I don't have any experience with that scenario.

[Anonymous]

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@swalton wrote:

If I use Vault's Copy-design command to make a copy of the assembly and the adaptive part at the same time, the new adaptive part does not update as the new assembly changes.  Note that I did not copy any of the components that provided the reference geometry for the adaptive part.

Is this the expected behavior?

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While I am not a big fan of how well adaptivity works it will work if you give it a chance.

You did not give it a chance and yes that would be the expected behaviour.

I would try another copy design and copy the parts your adaptive part references, Vault should change the references over to the new assembly.

This would be the only way to reset the references

[swalton]

I am copying the adaptive part with the assembly, it seems that IV/Vault does not update the new adaptive part to point to the new assembly. 

I was hoping that I had done something wrong with my Copy Design process, but it looks like this is as-designed behavior. 

Looks like this will be an IdeaStation post for a future version of IV.

[Anonymous]

Typically we copy the adaptive part to a new file, then copy the assembly and replace the adaptive part (which is identical to the original at this point).

We use design assistant to do this, and it maintains the projected geometry and constraints.

[swalton]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@swalton wrote:

If I use Vault's Copy-design command to make a copy of the assembly and the adaptive part at the same time, the new adaptive part does not update as the new assembly changes.  Note that I did not copy any of the components that provided the reference geometry for the adaptive part.

Is this the expected behavior?

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While I am not a big fan of how well adaptivity works it will work if you give it a chance.

You did not give it a chance and yes that would be the expected behaviour.

I would try another copy design and copy the parts your adaptive part references, Vault should change the references over to the new assembly.

This would be the only way to reset the references

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In this case, I am routing a conveyor belt around purchased pulleys and idlers.  The difference between the new assembly and the old one is the location of those purchased components.  Creating new models of common off-the-shelf components seems like a waste.

I was trying to drive the shape of the belt from the location of the components in the assembly.  It looks like a better workflow would be to drive the location of the components from the shape of the belt.

Anyway, I'm off to the idea station to request changing the source of the adaptivity during a copy-design operation.

[karthur1]

I have an assembly with an adaptive part.  The adaptive part depends on projected geometry from other components in the assembly.  The adaptive parts updates as the parent components move/change size as expected.

If you have things moving around like this, Inventor does not know which assembly you want it to follow for teh adaptivity. So the rule is it can only be adaptive in one.  Thats logical if you think about it.

About the only way to make it work like you want is to use some type of master layout and derive it into the part. Then when you do a copy design, you will have to copy out the master layout as well as the part. Everything will be tied back to the master layout.  This can get tricky sometimes when one part uses one master layout and another part uses a different layout and they both are in the same assembly and have to work together.... believe me, I live it.

Is there a better method of re-linking the projected geometry in the adaptive part than editing the sketch and manually re-defining each reference in the model browser?

If the file that the adaptive part is associated to is identical to the original (I mean an edited copy of it), you might be able to hide the original and open the adaptive part.  Since Inventor cant find it, u will get an resolve link dialog, then you can point to the new copied file. Just be sure to "un-hide" the orginal later. We used to do this all the time before I got an app to do that.  The add-in is here.

Kirk

[swalton]

I am not sure that I was clear in my process.

I have Adam.iam and Bob.ipt.  Bob is adaptive in Adam.

I use the Copy-Design command on Adam and set Bob to become a new file.  Adam is copied to Clare.iam and Bob is copied Doris.ipt.  IV and Vault update all the links so that I have two independent assemblies and two adaptive parts (and drawings and ipn files as required). I want Bob to stay adaptive to Adam and Doris to become adaptive to Clare.  What I get is Bob and Doris both adaptive to Adam, even though Doris is not in Adam.

If I had re-used Bob in Clare, the driver for Bob's adaptive behavior should stay with Adam.

My contention is that I have copied both the driving assembly and the driven part in the same operation, IV and/or Vault should update the adaptive links on the copy of the driven part (Doris) to the copy of the driving assembly (Clare). 

[karthur1]

"What -if" after you do the copy-design, you temporarily change the name of "Adam" and then open "Doris".  When it cant find Adam... point it to Clare.

[lesmfunk]

Will "Doris" even look for "Adam"?

This is relevant to what I am working on today. I tried the design copy for a dummy master assembly in T&P and it appears the copied runs, run, route, and hose are all adaptive to the new assembly (i.e. "Clare"). I keep the purchased components (fittings) outside of the T&P assembly (runs) and it appears the hose is still adaptive to the new fittings in the new master assembly, not the old.

Maybe another assembly layer would be a good workaround for you. Try to put the belt in an assembly below the idlers and pulleys.

BTW, is there a faster way to see and confirm the adaptivity links?

I am about to route all the air brake lines on a vehicle and then copy the work over to a newer model later. This has to work properly.

[Anonymous]

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@swalton wrote:

I am not sure that I was clear in my process.

I have Adam.iam and Bob.ipt.  Bob is adaptive in Adam.

I use the Copy-Design command on Adam and set Bob to become a new file.  Adam is copied to Clare.iam and Bob is copied Doris.ipt.  IV and Vault update all the links so that I have two independent assemblies and two adaptive parts (and drawings and ipn files as required). I want Bob to stay adaptive to Adam and Doris to become adaptive to Clare.  What I get is Bob and Doris both adaptive to Adam, even though Doris is not in Adam.

If I had re-used Bob in Clare, the driver for Bob's adaptive behavior should stay with Adam.

My contention is that I have copied both the driving assembly and the driven part in the same operation, IV and/or Vault should update the adaptive links on the copy of the driven part (Doris) to the copy of the driving assembly (Clare). 

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I've seen Copy designs done in Vault correctly update the adaptive link as well as incorrectly bring a link to the old assembly. I'm not sure what causes this. I have:

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