2013 Materials editor

[karthur1]

When I imported my materials, some of them came in as a "Misc" category.  Can someone tell me how to edit the category for each material?  I would like to get these into the Metal/Steel category.

This new materials/apperance editor is going to take some getting use to.  Its pretty confusing for me right now.

[MariaManuela]

Hi,

The Material Editor is used to create a material, and to review and edit the assets and properties of a material.

In 2012 and earlier:

Now in 2013 release

[Anonymous]

Thanks

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@ChrisMitchell01 wrote:

Hi Andy,

 

So if you want to preserve your "tweaked" copper appearance, you have 2 choices:

1. From the Appearance Broswer, Rt click on the "Copper - Polished" appearance & use Add To & write it back to the Inventor Material Library, essentially updating the master appearance.

2. Create a custom appearance library & then use Add To & copy it there instead - might be worth giving it a different name so that you know it's your modified version.

Thanks,

Chris

---

Chris, first off, thanks for the help thus far, it IS invaluable. Your explanation of the overrides from 2012 helps explain what is happening in regards to these parts.

However, if I try step one as you outlined above it does not work. It appears to be saving the default color back to the library but not the override color, possibly because the original file contained the default material?

I have also tried step two with the same results as step 1, the default color (IE: the default color used in 2013) is saved but not the override color from 2012.

[Anonymous]

Chris, as an aside, I went back into 2012 and exported the style in question as an .styxml file.

I was able to import the style, but i found the only way to do that is to go to the manage tab/Styles editor/Import button, which to be honest is a little inconvenient, but I did get there.

I now have the custom color I wanted in my library, but it shouldn't be this way. Not everyone would be able to follow this route, which would leave them at a disadvantage IMHO.

I think most folks would like to see the import option within the 'appearance' editor rather than the older styles editor.

Of course, this hasn't really solved the original problem, it still remains. I'm still unable to save that custom color from the imported part file.

[miluse.latalova]

I will try to provide some background to what may cause that you are “unable to save the color” from your  legacy part file.

Color styles in Inventor 2013 were replaced with a new format, the one that you know as Realistic Appearance in 2012. The lighter color that you see on your migrated part is unfinished migration of the color style from 2012, while the darker appearance is a finished migrated appearance which has a closer look to the assigned Realistic Appearance in the Color Style in 2012.  When you opened the file in 2013, you probably answered  “No” to the message that asked whether to complete conversion to the new Appearance format. This is why you still see the look of the Color Style from 2012. When you saved the  Appearance from the document into a library, it was saved as a fully converted Appearance and got the darker color of the Realistic Appearance.

The reason for  “postponing” the color style conversion during document open is performance. When opening a part/assembly with many color styles, the conversion can be time consuming.  To finish the color style conversion in your legacy part, you need to answer “Yes” to the conversion message or any time later use Styles Update.   Then you will see consistent look of the appearance in your original part and new parts.

If you want to keep the look of the 2012 color style in 2013, you need to remove the Realistic appearance assignment from the color style in 2012 prior opening the file in 2013. In this case, a new custom Appearance will be created with a look that is closer to the Standard Appearance of the color style, not the Realistic Appearance.  

Mila

[Anonymous]

Miluse, you are probably correct and your description of the problem now seems perfectly logical. But personally I think the problem should be able to be solved from within 2013 and not have to go back to 2012, which is inconvienent at best, and quite impossible for someone who doesn't have access to 2012 any longer.

Add this problem to the fact that existing styles can only be edited in the local document and it makes for a lot of frustration, and time wasted, when all you really want to do is keep a color that was used before, and in this case I was unable to duplicate that color because whenever I tried to edit it, it always showed the default settings in 2013 and did not show the settings from 2012 at all.

As I posted, I did manage to solve the problem, but I could not solve the problem in the local document, it simply refused to work and I had to go back to 2012 in order to solve it. Time that could of been spent persuing other endeavours.

[miluse.latalova]

Hi Andy,

I understand your point and I’m sorry for the inconveniences that you experienced.   

The thing I would like to add is that we moved to a new shared format and content that will allow to share material data between applications;  and only color styles that were shipped with Inventor and were not customized are converted to an existing Appearance in the new library, often more appropriate for the material than the color style was.  For customized and custom color styles,  there should be always created a new custom Appearance to provide as close look to the color style as possible.

Best Regards,

Mila

[WHolzwarth]

I totally understand and appreciate common behavior of materials and colors in the Autodesk family of applications.

But I don't understand switching off the old colors in 2013. The user should be able to use them, as long as is needed.

And I'm too dumb in creating similar 2013 colors as the old ones by myself. That's not my task.

Walter

[Rory_M]

Is it just me or is this "new improved"** materials editor hard work?

All I want to do is create some new materials, migrate my old ones and change a few of the colour styles.

I've got most of it done, but assigning appearances is flakier than a Gregg's Sausage Roll (ask a Brit if you're unsure about that reference).

Some of my materials work fine, but others let me change the appearance, and then lose the setting as soon as I click OK.

I'm using this workflow:

Click the "Add material to document and display in editor"

Change the Appearance

Click OK - And hope it has worked.

At this point, sometimes it's apparent that the appearance hasn't changed to the one I selected because the thumbnail doesn't update. As an example, trying to change the appearance to one from the Autodesk library called "Clear - Reflective" doesn't work, but the one called "Clear" does.

Once I've managed to update a material, I then RMB on the material and go Add To > My Library / Relevant category

It all seems a bit hit and miss, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It's also pretty long winded, having to copy the material to the document so you can change it and copy it back.

Another issue is that it seems to get slower and slower the more materials you copy to the document. I had to copy a few at a time, edit them and then put them back for it to be useable. We have approx 30 materials so I hate to think how bad it would be for anyone who uses more.

I can understand the need for a central materials library for all products in the suite, but compared to the previous materials/colour creation tools in Inventor, this is a retrograde step. The people responsible for this should be forced to create material libraries for a month as punishment.

Apologies for the whinge, but my producitivity for the day just took a massive dive. Let's hope the migration to 2014 is a bit easier....

Rory 

** The term "new improved" is used loosely and can be interpreted however you like.

[Anonymous]

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@Rory_M wrote:

** The term "new improved" is used loosely and can be interpreted however you like.

---

Rory, 'new improved' usually means it's better than using a rock ... lol

I fully sympathise with your experience of using the materials editor though.

I believe that any custom materials should be created and edited in the LIBRARY, not in the document as they are now. That's just backwards to me ... lol

It means that custom colors/materials are only available within that document, unless you happen to remember to add it to the library. Imagine what would happen if you forgot which document you created that nice, time consuming, material/color in, and it's not in the Library. How many days could you waste trying to find it again?

Another point is the number of materials in a document. You can have an infinite number of materials contained within the document (Part), even though 99% of them are not being used, and removing them is quite a chore as there is no indication of which materials/colors are being used and which are not, so it's a real hit and miss affair in trying to remove the unused materials/colors.

As you said, this is a waste of resources which inflates the file size of a part and also increases the time taken to load that part, whether you load it individually or as part of an assembly.

Computers may be quick these days, but there is no excuse for deliberatly slowing them down again, that's just poor programming practise IMHO.

You couldn't be blamed for thinking that this aspect of Inventor was a last minute inclusion and remains unfinished ... lol

[Rory_M]

Hopefully I'm missing a trick here, but is the ability to add materials to the library whilst others are working now gone?

I've set up a materials library which is stored on the server. We all have it referenced in our project files so it's a shared resource.

I'm trying to add a new material to it, and get this message:

The main point is that it states that "Multiple users have the same library file open" and "Quit all applications on all computers that are currently using that library".

Surely the point of a library is so that everyone accesses the same data. I don't like the idea of having to have a library for each user so that we can add or edit materials without logging everyone out. 

If this is correct then this is a major problem. Please let me know if there is a setting I'm missing or a workaround that doesn't involve everyone shutting down Inventor.

Rory

[SBix26]

For what it's worth, this is how color and material styles have worked since they appeared in the product (version 9, was it?): you create/edit them in a file, then save to a library, then perhaps purge from the file to keep it clean.  The only thing you can actually do in the library itself is migrate and delete.

I haven't yet really dived into the Appearances, yet, but I'm rather dreading it.  From what I've seen, the editor is anything but intuitive.

[cmcconnell]

You are correct Sam - the colors/materials were always edited in-file. The difference now (and it is a huge issue IMHO) is the default library and location are specified via the project file which locks it for editing. We have ours Vaulted and it is giving us stress (A lot of stress).

When I need to change/add a material, I need to shut down IV; check out the library; restart inventor; make my change; shut down IV; check the library in; restart IV; tell all of my employees to stop what they are doing; shut down; get latest on the library; restart IV and get back to work.

[JorgenBjornes]

I acually just stumbled upon this. Materials cannot be added anymore due to the material file being read by another computer.

Because the first Inventor started holds read-access to the material file (which is placed in a network share together with the rest of the style library)..

Really...

This will become a major pain factor, making editing/adding materials virtually impossible unless I'm the first one to show up at the office in the morning.

-This must surely be a bug to be quickly fixed in a hotfix?? 

-Any good known workarounds?

[mrattray]

I have.this problem with the default.ivb file. It lives in a shared network folder and the first person in in the morning gets read/write (very rarely is that me). I ended up setting it to read only. It's fine except if I want to make a change I have to shut down my IV, set it to not read only, restart IV, make my changes, shut down IV, check it read only and then restart IV again. Still, it's better then trying to figure out who in the office has the magic key and convincing them to stop working so I can make a tweek to a macro.

[Anonymous]

I remember a magic button it was called Read-Write styles library, if it isn’t broke don’t fix it  

[Anonymous]

Maybe a standalone project editor is required; it would certainly be handy for setting up and managing a library. I have just been re-setting image maps that have lost their links, it’s not a very efficient method to many steps required. Of course it doesn’t preview the image/colour still in the drop down menu (Update 1 included)

[Anonymous]

I agree with you entirely Rob. Personally I think this "improvement" to the materials editor is anything but, at worst it's a disaster, at best it's ill conceived. I have both 2012 & 2013 and frankly I am shying away from using the latest software purely because of the changes to the materials editor, it really cramps my style.

Regards.

Dave

Mechatronics Design Ltd

[Anonymous]

There's trying and there's failing miserably, yes I think we would have been better of skipping this upgrade completely they normally add enough new features to make the upgrade worthwhile but I can't see of anything productive to the workflow, on the contrary unfortunately. No point in making a common material library, all our materials and colours are customised RAL/Pantone/Laminates this needs to be shared within our group. I am using the materials editor on my c: drive now, I then just sync with other users at the end of the day. Theoretically it should make the appearance browser a bit quicker although mine just runs crashes, I then have to load up again. The main reason for getting a SSD was to reduce the time it took to reload Inventor after it crashed. Kind regards Robert Beckley Development Designer | Sloane

[Anonymous]

Hi Rob,

Unfortunately I can't quite agree with you that 2013 isn't a worthwhile upgrade as it has quite a few new features that could be very useful. I have not taken advantage of them myself due to the materials editing issue, which I find frustrating to say the least.

It would have been nice, if like some previous releases of Inventor, it had been left  to the end user to decide if they implimented the new version or continued to use the old. I think that most experienced users would have opted for the latter.

In truth this attempt to consolidate material types across Autodesk products appears to be a very half-hearted affair. It actually does little to provide a common library because it is not aimed at all Autodesk products, take Publisher for example - a product directly linked to Inventor.

I really liked the old way of working with materials and found it easy to achieve what I wanted quickly. Sure, it could be improved upon, and with a greater selection of material types available, but at least it worked quite well.

Like you Rob, I have the need to create and re-use many Pantone colours and non-standard materials types.

Now I find the whole custom materials process to be tortuous. Autodesk have dropped the ball on this one. I doubt that I will switch over to Inventor 2013 full time until this issue has been resolved. It might even mean delaying upgrading until 2014 appears.It's that serious an issue for me.

Regards.& best wishes to all.

Dave

Mechatronics Design Ltd.

[Neil_Cross]

I also agree with everything that has been said in this thread.  I have a particular problem with the sheer amount of absolutely useless textures that are now available in Inventor... a product aimed at the manufacturing industry and heavily used in Oil & Gas etc, shouldn't be loaded up to the teeth with textures of mosaic tiles, cherry stained wood, floral yellow wallpaper?!?! It's utterly useless and serves no purpose other than bogging Inventor down even further.  What's that you say? We now have a consistent texture library across all Autodesk products? Well here's a thought, how many engineering staff working on Inventor will EVER exchange a model with someone using the likes of Revit? Never, in all my years of working in the Autodesk channel, in industry, never.  What's that? But it'll help translate models into the likes of 3DS Max? How about no, how about forgetting about pretty pictures and work on the fact that constraints from Inventor do not translate into 3DS Max, leading to people spending hours recreating them for an animation! 

I'm in a bad mood as I'm trying to make a material in our 'new' materials library and the whole thing is winding me up.  Like why is there so many fields now for a material? They aren't displayed anywhere other than in the **** editor.  Why is there a Revit Annotation Information area in the Inventor material editor?! Why when I edit a MATERIAL, do I get the full range of texture editing options? Why do I have to create the material in the document, then add it back to the library? Why do materials sometimes accept a category assignment then randomly some don't? 

Anyway, rant over.  Honestly Autodesk, employ someone who knows what the customers want, or more importantly, need.  

Someone above said that 2013 was a worthwhile upgrade.... mmm I beg to differ, looking through the what's new of Inventor 2013, I'm struggling to find anything worth the hassle.  The only reason I brought my company up to 2013 was to utilise the improvements in the full SQL multi-site replication ownership management as we have remote sites that stuggled with 2012.  It pays to stay up to date, but I wouldn't say it was a wholly positive move.

Neil Cross.