The National Map Lidar Point Cloud Issues

[sduffin]

I have a project in Phoenix AZ that needs better topo than the standard IW topo that is brought in through model builder.  We do have a field survey of our site, but the coverage is not nearly enough as I am trying to create a visual of the site from the freeway.  The default topo clearly is not correct as it shows the freeway with significant elevation bumps.

To resolve the issue, I went to the National Map download page (see attached screenshot), found available Lidar Point Cloud info for my project site, downloaded it, and imported it into Infraworks.  For the life of me I cannot get it into the project acrea.  I reviewed the meta data (see link below) and tried UTM-12 coordinate system, AZ Central Foot Nad 83 as these are indicated.  But in some instance the info comes in on a weird 45 degreeish angle to the earth.  Not sure what I am doing wrong.  Does any one have experience working with this specific lidar data and how to get it in properly?  Thanks in advance for the input!

https://thor-f5.er.usgs.gov/ngtoc/metadata/waf/elevation/lidar_point_cloud/laz/AZ_MaricopaPinal_1_20...

[Yoshiyuki_Miyauchi]

@sduffin 

If you don't mind, can you give me the point cloud data so I can try? I will check it out.

[Karsten.Saenger]

Hi @sduffin ,

can you send a rectangle in shape format that I can use to create a Model Builder model for your area of interest.

I think i can download the LIDAR data myself.
What is the model coordinate system that you use in InfraWorks?

Regards,

Karsten.

[sduffin]

See attached.  Thanks for giving it a try!  I ended up sending it to my GIS group and they converted it through Arc GIS into a format that I can use.  I am still baffled why I can't import it directly into Infraworks to the correct location.  Maybe you will have better luck.

Let me know how it goes and thanks for your help with this!

[sduffin]

Thanks for your help!  If you can email me your email address I can send you a link to the files through a sharepoint file link.  My email address is:  scottd@horrocks.com.

Thanks!

[Karsten.Saenger]

Hi @sduffin ,

thanks for sharing the data.

I've created a Model Builder model in InfraWorks from your area of interest. I selected LL84 for the model database CS.
Next, I downloaded the LIDAR tiles and opened them in Recap to create a Recap project. You can do the same in InfraWorks directly as the same Recap engine is used there.
The model and point cloud line up just fine. The point cloud CS is CSRS.UTM-12N.

I cannot recreate any issue on my side.

Regards,

Karsten.

[sduffin]

Thanks for looking into this.  I will try on my end using the target coordinate system you suggest.  I will let you and our chat friends how it goes on my end when I can get it.  I appreciate your willingness to help on many occasions.

[sduffin · Accepted solution]

Karsten,

I tried what you did, but through Infraworks, but ran into coordinate systems not lining up.  Here are the steps that I took:

• Created a model builder for the area of interest and set the coordinate system to LL84 as you suggested
• Imported through the datasource all the downloaded LiDAR panels 
• When configuring it, it asks for a source and target cooridnate system. 
• I used CSRS.UTM-12N for the source coordinate system, and LL84 for the target system
• It takes 15 minutes or so to process the ReCap through Infraworks (so obviuosly the data is in the model)
• The Point Cloud does not show up in the area of interest
• I use the Point Cloud Theme to classify the Point Cloud.  It shows the various classifications, but it does not show in the area of interest
• I use the Infraworks Point Cloud Terrain Generation feature and use the default settings.  It processes for a very long time, but does not show up in the area of interest.

So it appears all the Point Cloud data is in the model, but clearly not in the area of interest, so coordinate systems are not lining up.  I haven't tried to expand my model limits to see where it is at because I was expecting it to fall in place like yours did.

Is this an Infraworks coordinate system issues since you were able to successfully do it independtly through ReCap?

Not sure what is going on.   Any suggestions?  Maybe you can try through Infraworks to see if it works on your end?

Thanks for your help!

[ramesh_sridharan · Accepted solution]

@sduffin Have you tried 

• CSRS.UTM-12N for the source coordinate system, and same (CSRS.UTM-12N ) for the target system ?

[sduffin]

Thanks Karsten and Ramesh - this works perfectly.  I appreciate your help!

[sduffin]

I have another project that I have downloaded the following LAZ file from the National Map to which I cannot get it in the right place, and it appears to not be showing up at all in IW:

http://filetransfer.horrocks.com/Download.aspx?k=YqiDb0vhn3PBZZEgrDdz

Reviewing the MetaData it looks to be in this coordinate system:  NAD83(2011) / UTM zone 12N

I have an IW model set up in the LL84 Coordinate System.  I import the above LAZ file to which it directs me to convert it in ReCap. I set the to and from coordinate systems to what is shown above and it generates the ReCAP and imports it into IW.  However, it does not show in the place I expect.  In fact, it doesn't seem to appear anywhere.  I do a Point Cloud Classification Theme to which it processes, but I can't find it in my model.  In the Data Source panel, I right click the point cloud import and hit select feature, but it does not show up.  I created a new proposal of my model, and I strip out all the data and remove the model extents, and take the same steps as outlined above, but I still cannot find it and it is not in the right place.  Any suggestions?

I really would like to get this figured out as I would like to do this on all of my models that I am building where point cloud data is available.

I did start with a brand new model and it imported in.  I created a Terrain from the Point Cloud and then imported Bing Imagery.  The imagery does not seem to want to drap to the Point Cloud Terrain in this new drawing so I am unable to verify if it came in where I would expect it to.

As a side note, are The National Map Point Clouds available through the GIS Connector?

I really appreciate everyone's help!

[ramesh_sridharan]

@sduffin Have you checked the pointcloud is not hovering above due to difference in elevation?

[barmanr]

Hi @sduffin ,

Is it possible to provide the data using another link? If Yes, I can PM you a private one-drive link for this. When I try to access the link above it says blocked country: Singapore.

Warmest Regards,

[ramesh_sridharan]

@sduffin Rishov confirmed that importing that data with UTM83-12 CS seems to work fine in IW. I just tested it. Can you give it a shot and confirm? Thanks,

[sduffin]

I will give it a shot when I can get back into it.  Thanks for following up on this!

[sduffin]

I am doing another Point Cloud import for a Texas project using the same approach as in this thread.  I downloaded the LAZ files from the National Map, created a ReCap project (left coordinate system blank), and imported the Point Cloud RCP file into Infraworks.  Struggling to get it into the right coordinate system (again).  How did you find that coordinate system in the MetaData for what you suggested on my last question? I am not seeing it in the MetaData other than UTM 30 which doesn't even seem to be in the right world.  I have attached the MetaData for reference.

The project is located at this Lat/Long:

31°28'47.99"N

101°50'6.19"W

Here is my ReCap Point Cloud:

And my Infraworks model that I want to pull it into (rotated):

If you have time in the future I would love to see if you can help on this one.  Thanks in advance for yours (or anyone else's) help!

[sduffin · Accepted solution]

Looks like I figured it out.  CSRS.UTM-14N