Georeference buildings, coordinate system

[abwa1234]

Hi

I have a model with buildings from sketchup and I need to export it to infraworks with another model, so it needs to be in the same coordinate system to match up. Are the any ways to assign a coordinate system to the buildings`? With coordinate system I mean UTM zones or ETRS (Datum, projection), and not a local coordinate system, but a world wide, so the drawing is georeferenced.

Thanks 😃

[abwa1234]

Hi

I have a model with buildings from sketchup and I need to export it to infraworks with another model, so it needs to be in the same coordinate system to match up. Are the any ways to assign a coordinate system to the buildings`? With coordinate system I mean UTM zones or ETRS (Datum, projection), and not a local coordinate system, but a world wide, so the drawing is georeferenced.

Thanks 😃

[Matt__W]

I'm not too familiar with Sketchup but maybe this article will help. It talks about geolocating a SU model in Google Earth.

https://help.sketchup.com/en/article/3000149

[Matt__W]

I'm not too familiar with Sketchup but maybe this article will help. It talks about geolocating a SU model in Google Earth.

https://help.sketchup.com/en/article/3000149

[abwa1234]

I see that the first post can be misunderstod. I need the buildings to be georeferenced in 3DS MAX, not sketchup

[abwa1234]

I see that the first post can be misunderstod. I need the buildings to be georeferenced in 3DS MAX, not sketchup

[JasonArtley]

I've never had good luck with getting the buildings to come in right when exported from Sketchup as .dae. Instead I have "cheat" methods. 

Cheat method #1) Have a CAD file with building footprints. Overlay this drawing into Infraworks, and interactively place/adjust 3D Buildings so they line up.

Cheat Method #2) Interactively place building in roughly the right location. Configure your data again and make the coordinates match what the Sketchup window says, as pictured here: 

[JasonArtley]

I've never had good luck with getting the buildings to come in right when exported from Sketchup as .dae. Instead I have "cheat" methods. 

Cheat method #1) Have a CAD file with building footprints. Overlay this drawing into Infraworks, and interactively place/adjust 3D Buildings so they line up.

Cheat Method #2) Interactively place building in roughly the right location. Configure your data again and make the coordinates match what the Sketchup window says, as pictured here: 

[Matt__W]

Are the buildings separate models or are they imported into InfraWorks? It would be pretty easy to import the buildings into InfraWorks. From there you can export to FBX format (and include the terrain, buildings, roads, etc) and import into 3DS Max.

[Matt__W]

Are the buildings separate models or are they imported into InfraWorks? It would be pretty easy to import the buildings into InfraWorks. From there you can export to FBX format (and include the terrain, buildings, roads, etc) and import into 3DS Max.

[abwa1234]

Here is the case, I want a surface created in Civil 3D to have a topo-image draped on it (airphoto), and I want buildings from Sketchup 3d warehouse placed at specific coordinates (which I can do in civil 3d), I then want to import the model in Lumion and be able to add materials to the buildings.

I manage to import the 3D surface (from Civil 3D) with topo image into Autodesk Infraworks and then export it to a FBX file into Lumion which works great. The problem is that if I import the buildings directly from Google Sketchup as a DAE or as a SKP file into Lumion, then I won't be able to place the buildings at the exact coordinates in Lumion.

If I open the sketchup files however in Civil 3D and place them at the correct coordinates on the surface, then everything seems normal in Civil 3D. If I then tries to import both the surface and the buildings into infraworks (which use georefr.), then all the buildings will split into pieces (as they are not 3D solids), meaning I can't continue to export the file into FBX to use in Lumion. I have also tried to open the Civil 3D DWG file (both surface and buildings together in one file) directly in Lumion 3D, the problem here is that I can't assign any materials to the buildings.

I have Revit, infrastructur, Sketchup, Lumion and Civil 3d at my disposal.

Are the any methods to import/export between the programs so that I can't get my Civil 3D draped surfaces to be aligned with my sketchup buildings?

I see 3 alternatives, on how this could be made, unfortunately I can't find any solutions on how to do it:

If Civil 3D had a Collada exporter,then I could export both the buildings and the surface directly from Civil 3D to Lumion. ( I have tried to open the DWG in Revit and export it as DAE, but the surface won't follow).
OR
If Sketchup 3D warehouse models could be made to 3D solids, then they would not split up into pieces when opened in infraworks.
OR
If Lumion had a way to georeference the importer files, then everything would be at the right place.


I think I found a way:
I import the sketchup buildings directly to 3DS MAX (this keeps the geometry of the buildings), then export the files to COLLADA and open them in infraworks.
In infraworks I can use both the terrain and the newly imported buildings and export the whole project as a FBX file which I can open in Lumion.
I just tested it, and it works great.

Now I just have to find out how to georeference the buildings to the right coordinates in 3DS max, I really hope that is possible, because they need to be at the exact coordinates when I open the buildings in infraworks.Anyone know how to georeferenced buildings in 3DS max?

[abwa1234]

Here is the case, I want a surface created in Civil 3D to have a topo-image draped on it (airphoto), and I want buildings from Sketchup 3d warehouse placed at specific coordinates (which I can do in civil 3d), I then want to import the model in Lumion and be able to add materials to the buildings.

I manage to import the 3D surface (from Civil 3D) with topo image into Autodesk Infraworks and then export it to a FBX file into Lumion which works great. The problem is that if I import the buildings directly from Google Sketchup as a DAE or as a SKP file into Lumion, then I won't be able to place the buildings at the exact coordinates in Lumion.

If I open the sketchup files however in Civil 3D and place them at the correct coordinates on the surface, then everything seems normal in Civil 3D. If I then tries to import both the surface and the buildings into infraworks (which use georefr.), then all the buildings will split into pieces (as they are not 3D solids), meaning I can't continue to export the file into FBX to use in Lumion. I have also tried to open the Civil 3D DWG file (both surface and buildings together in one file) directly in Lumion 3D, the problem here is that I can't assign any materials to the buildings.

I have Revit, infrastructur, Sketchup, Lumion and Civil 3d at my disposal.

Are the any methods to import/export between the programs so that I can't get my Civil 3D draped surfaces to be aligned with my sketchup buildings?

I see 3 alternatives, on how this could be made, unfortunately I can't find any solutions on how to do it:

If Civil 3D had a Collada exporter,then I could export both the buildings and the surface directly from Civil 3D to Lumion. ( I have tried to open the DWG in Revit and export it as DAE, but the surface won't follow).
OR
If Sketchup 3D warehouse models could be made to 3D solids, then they would not split up into pieces when opened in infraworks.
OR
If Lumion had a way to georeference the importer files, then everything would be at the right place.


I think I found a way:
I import the sketchup buildings directly to 3DS MAX (this keeps the geometry of the buildings), then export the files to COLLADA and open them in infraworks.
In infraworks I can use both the terrain and the newly imported buildings and export the whole project as a FBX file which I can open in Lumion.
I just tested it, and it works great.

Now I just have to find out how to georeference the buildings to the right coordinates in 3DS max, I really hope that is possible, because they need to be at the exact coordinates when I open the buildings in infraworks.Anyone know how to georeferenced buildings in 3DS max?

[Matt__W]

You can import the Sketchup models directly into InfraWorks. Then export the whole thing (terrain, building, etc) to FBX.

Another option, just thinking out loud here, would be to edit the models in 3DS Max (apply textures, etc.) then export to FBX format. You can then import the FBX models into InfraWorks and place them manually. You can use the method @JasonArtley outlined with importing the building footprint from Civil 3D and aligning the FBX models to the building outlines. If you make any changes to the models in 3DS Max, you export to FBX format again and overwrite the previous building FBX. In InfraWorks you would select the FBX model(s) that you imported before and simply click the CLOSE & REFRESH button and it should pull in the updates, keeping the model(s) in their previous locations (unless you modified the location in 3DS Max). You would then export the InfraWorks model again to FBX format and update in Lumion.

This process has worked for me in the past with SHP data exported from Civil 3D so in theory it should work with 3D models in the same fashion.

[Matt__W]

You can import the Sketchup models directly into InfraWorks. Then export the whole thing (terrain, building, etc) to FBX.

Another option, just thinking out loud here, would be to edit the models in 3DS Max (apply textures, etc.) then export to FBX format. You can then import the FBX models into InfraWorks and place them manually. You can use the method @JasonArtley outlined with importing the building footprint from Civil 3D and aligning the FBX models to the building outlines. If you make any changes to the models in 3DS Max, you export to FBX format again and overwrite the previous building FBX. In InfraWorks you would select the FBX model(s) that you imported before and simply click the CLOSE & REFRESH button and it should pull in the updates, keeping the model(s) in their previous locations (unless you modified the location in 3DS Max). You would then export the InfraWorks model again to FBX format and update in Lumion.

This process has worked for me in the past with SHP data exported from Civil 3D so in theory it should work with 3D models in the same fashion.

[abwa1234]

I understand what you mean, the thing is that move and place the buildings manualy is not accurate enough for me in this project I'm working on. The customer wants the building a specific place at a specific height. When I use civil I can adjust that down to centimeters, and when I import a civil model directly into infraworks it will locate at the correct position if its georeferenced. The problem is that I use sketchup buildings, and they are not 3d solids, so when I have adjusted them on the right position in civil 3D and then exported them to infraworks they split up to pieces. But if I open the same sketchup files in 3DS Max and export them as Collada files to infraworks then they work great. I tried to open a civil 3d file in 3ds max that was georeferenced, when I then exported the file to infraworks it was still georeferenced (meaning 3ds max kept the coordinates of the file), problem here is that the building is in pieces this time as well. So, the only solution I see is to georeference the sketchup files in 3DS max, without going through civil... Sorry for the mess and my poor english

[abwa1234]

I understand what you mean, the thing is that move and place the buildings manualy is not accurate enough for me in this project I'm working on. The customer wants the building a specific place at a specific height. When I use civil I can adjust that down to centimeters, and when I import a civil model directly into infraworks it will locate at the correct position if its georeferenced. The problem is that I use sketchup buildings, and they are not 3d solids, so when I have adjusted them on the right position in civil 3D and then exported them to infraworks they split up to pieces. But if I open the same sketchup files in 3DS Max and export them as Collada files to infraworks then they work great. I tried to open a civil 3d file in 3ds max that was georeferenced, when I then exported the file to infraworks it was still georeferenced (meaning 3ds max kept the coordinates of the file), problem here is that the building is in pieces this time as well. So, the only solution I see is to georeference the sketchup files in 3DS max, without going through civil... Sorry for the mess and my poor english

[Karsten.Saenger]

@Hi @abwa1234

mayabe I have overseen this, but I am missing the FBX Export of the Sketchup files directly from Civil 3D, does this work?

Please also note that the FBX format has some problems with high coordinates range. So, if you export from InfraWorks as FBX with for example ETRS coordinates you might experience some degradation in the geometry.

FBX can store its location coordinates in the file, that's the reason why you can place the file to the correct coordintes automatically. DAE or OBJ just stores relative coordinates of the geometry.

3ds Max models should be placed somewhere around X,Y,Z = 0,0,0.

If you use Civil 3D files/data (with coordinates) in 3ds Max there is usually a coordinate shift information. You need to note the shift info and when you import a model into InfraWorks you can apply this shift in the configuration dialog, so that the data is placed at it's original coodinates.

This is explained in the data exchange workflow between Civil 3D and 3ds Max, for example here:

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/3ds-max/getting-started/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2015/ENU/3DS...

Another workflow option - just thinking - could be to determine the center point of you 3D model, create a Shape/SDF file with the Center Point, import into InfraWorks, place the model on this point. A rotation adjustment might be needed.

Regards,

Karsten.

[Karsten.Saenger]

@Hi @abwa1234

mayabe I have overseen this, but I am missing the FBX Export of the Sketchup files directly from Civil 3D, does this work?

Please also note that the FBX format has some problems with high coordinates range. So, if you export from InfraWorks as FBX with for example ETRS coordinates you might experience some degradation in the geometry.

FBX can store its location coordinates in the file, that's the reason why you can place the file to the correct coordintes automatically. DAE or OBJ just stores relative coordinates of the geometry.

3ds Max models should be placed somewhere around X,Y,Z = 0,0,0.

If you use Civil 3D files/data (with coordinates) in 3ds Max there is usually a coordinate shift information. You need to note the shift info and when you import a model into InfraWorks you can apply this shift in the configuration dialog, so that the data is placed at it's original coodinates.

This is explained in the data exchange workflow between Civil 3D and 3ds Max, for example here:

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/3ds-max/getting-started/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2015/ENU/3DS...

Another workflow option - just thinking - could be to determine the center point of you 3D model, create a Shape/SDF file with the Center Point, import into InfraWorks, place the model on this point. A rotation adjustment might be needed.

Regards,

Karsten.

[abwa1234]

Thanks for the suggestion Karsten.

I have tried and tested this method now: Sketchup (export dwg) to Civil 3d (export as FBX) to infraworks (export as FBX) to Lumion 3D. Looks like the geometry especially circles get reduced and some of the planes flips. The materials will also not follow. The only think that works this way is the georeference.

Your last suggestion about the shape file, is similar to what I do today, and that is adjusting the buildings manually by creating two solid objects from civil 3d which follows the terrain and then align the sketchup/3DS max buildings to it (but its far from optimal).

here are some pictures from the last test with using FBX:

[abwa1234]

Thanks for the suggestion Karsten.

I have tried and tested this method now: Sketchup (export dwg) to Civil 3d (export as FBX) to infraworks (export as FBX) to Lumion 3D. Looks like the geometry especially circles get reduced and some of the planes flips. The materials will also not follow. The only think that works this way is the georeference.

Your last suggestion about the shape file, is similar to what I do today, and that is adjusting the buildings manually by creating two solid objects from civil 3d which follows the terrain and then align the sketchup/3DS max buildings to it (but its far from optimal).

here are some pictures from the last test with using FBX:

[Karsten.Saenger]

Hi @abwa1234

I think the geometry degradation issue is due to the coordinates range.
Quick test would be:

• In C3D move the model (building) close to X,Y,Z = 0,0,0
• Export as FBX
• Import to InfraWorks (interactive placement)
• The cordinate shift workaround from 3ds Max workflow should help in this issue

The materials issue could have another reason and needs to be investiaged as next step:

• http://beingcivil.typepad.com/my_weblog/2013/03/autodesk-infrastructure-modeler-importing-skp-model-...
• Material Library 2017 missing? http://knowledge.autodesk.com/article/Materials-Library-missing-in-InfraWorks

Regards,

Karsten.

[Karsten.Saenger]

Hi @abwa1234

I think the geometry degradation issue is due to the coordinates range.
Quick test would be:

• In C3D move the model (building) close to X,Y,Z = 0,0,0
• Export as FBX
• Import to InfraWorks (interactive placement)
• The cordinate shift workaround from 3ds Max workflow should help in this issue

The materials issue could have another reason and needs to be investiaged as next step:

• http://beingcivil.typepad.com/my_weblog/2013/03/autodesk-infrastructure-modeler-importing-skp-model-...
• Material Library 2017 missing? http://knowledge.autodesk.com/article/Materials-Library-missing-in-InfraWorks

Regards,

Karsten.

[abwa1234]

I tried your test Karsten, unfortunately there is no difference 😕

 

[abwa1234]

I tried your test Karsten, unfortunately there is no difference 😕

 

[John_DeLeeuw]

@abwa1234, see my screencast in this post and try the workflow using Navisworks. I'm 100% sure it will provide you with better geometry and materials in InfraWorks 360 and possibly also Lumion.

[John_DeLeeuw]

@abwa1234, see my screencast in this post and try the workflow using Navisworks. I'm 100% sure it will provide you with better geometry and materials in InfraWorks 360 and possibly also Lumion.

[Anonymous]

Were able to achieve that ?

[Anonymous]

Were able to achieve that ?

[Matt__W]

Maybe this will help you??

https://www.autodesk.com/autodesk-university/class/Complete-Collaboration-and-More-5-Simple-Steps-Us...

[Matt__W]

Maybe this will help you??

https://www.autodesk.com/autodesk-university/class/Complete-Collaboration-and-More-5-Simple-Steps-Us...

[Anonymous]

I already have the 3d models created form OpenStreetMap data. I would want to attach geo locations to the exact location.

Thank you!

[Anonymous]

I already have the 3d models created form OpenStreetMap data. I would want to attach geo locations to the exact location.

Thank you!

[Karsten.Saenger]

Hi @Anonymous ,

what is your problem exactly, the geometry degradation or the automatic placement in the correct location.
What files do you have (DAE, 3ds, FBX, etc.)? And are the files in the correct spot in other programs?

Regards,
Karsten.

[Karsten.Saenger]

Hi @Anonymous ,

what is your problem exactly, the geometry degradation or the automatic placement in the correct location.
What files do you have (DAE, 3ds, FBX, etc.)? And are the files in the correct spot in other programs?

Regards,
Karsten.

[Anonymous]

Hi @Karsten.Saenger 

Thank you for your response.

I have the DAE file, which I exported from Kendzi3d plug-in (OpenStreetMap), Placing of the objects is also fine. It is just that they are not attached with geo locations. 

For example: None of the buildings have longitude and latitude associated with them, they are just 3d building boxes.

[Anonymous]

Hi @Karsten.Saenger 

Thank you for your response.

I have the DAE file, which I exported from Kendzi3d plug-in (OpenStreetMap), Placing of the objects is also fine. It is just that they are not attached with geo locations. 

For example: None of the buildings have longitude and latitude associated with them, they are just 3d building boxes.

[Karsten.Saenger]

Hi @Anonymous ,

as far as I can say the DAE files do not contain coordinate system information, so InfraWorks cannot place them in the correct location automatically.

Actually, none of the 3D model files that InfraWorks can import can carry Autodesk coordinate system info.

The workaround is to place the geometry in the desired coordinates and use XY-M as coordinate system for example. This method can result in geometry degradation if large coordinates are used, see http://knowledge.autodesk.com/article/When-importing-a-FBX-file-the-geometry-is-degraded-and-has-bad-quality

Regards,

Karsten.

[Karsten.Saenger]

Hi @Anonymous ,

as far as I can say the DAE files do not contain coordinate system information, so InfraWorks cannot place them in the correct location automatically.

Actually, none of the 3D model files that InfraWorks can import can carry Autodesk coordinate system info.

The workaround is to place the geometry in the desired coordinates and use XY-M as coordinate system for example. This method can result in geometry degradation if large coordinates are used, see http://knowledge.autodesk.com/article/When-importing-a-FBX-file-the-geometry-is-degraded-and-has-bad-quality

Regards,

Karsten.

[Glenn.Coppard]

Further to @Karsten.Saenger response, these OLD posts here outline the workaround for the large-coordinate quality degradation issue.  It's NOT a FIX, as there are still fundamental flaws with the handling of generic '3D Model' data (eg. FBX, DAE, 3D Dwg etc...) as 'single points' but generally provide visually acceptable results for buildings, short bridges, tunnel portals and such-like.

@abwa1234 @Anonymous  (not sure who still has a problem...)
You need to Geo-locate your source building data to then determine the spatial 'offset' you need to apply / re-apply on import.

The sources you've mentioned; Kendzi3d plug-in (OpenStreetMap), when you 'query' the data in OpenStreetMap you can get the Lat/Long coord's of various elements/nodes, obviously this is not transferred to the DAE exports, thus you need to place these interactively (eg. manual copy-paste Lat/Long coords) OR as others have mentioned, coordinate your data using a source type that does export geo-location data eg. SHP file of the building footprint.

The crux of it is, IW is a tool that uses data you feed it, if the data is missing, it needs you to tell it what to do.

It doesn't have enough AI to replace us - yet.

[edit] You could also look at the Collada Schema used by your exporter, as should Autodesk for their importer(s), as the Collada DAE 1.5 schema supports geographic location metadata for the Asset - Refer Page 5-40 & 5-41 HERE [/edit]

[Glenn.Coppard]

Further to @Karsten.Saenger response, these OLD posts here outline the workaround for the large-coordinate quality degradation issue.  It's NOT a FIX, as there are still fundamental flaws with the handling of generic '3D Model' data (eg. FBX, DAE, 3D Dwg etc...) as 'single points' but generally provide visually acceptable results for buildings, short bridges, tunnel portals and such-like.

@abwa1234 @Anonymous  (not sure who still has a problem...)
You need to Geo-locate your source building data to then determine the spatial 'offset' you need to apply / re-apply on import.

The sources you've mentioned; Kendzi3d plug-in (OpenStreetMap), when you 'query' the data in OpenStreetMap you can get the Lat/Long coord's of various elements/nodes, obviously this is not transferred to the DAE exports, thus you need to place these interactively (eg. manual copy-paste Lat/Long coords) OR as others have mentioned, coordinate your data using a source type that does export geo-location data eg. SHP file of the building footprint.

The crux of it is, IW is a tool that uses data you feed it, if the data is missing, it needs you to tell it what to do.

It doesn't have enough AI to replace us - yet.

[edit] You could also look at the Collada Schema used by your exporter, as should Autodesk for their importer(s), as the Collada DAE 1.5 schema supports geographic location metadata for the Asset - Refer Page 5-40 & 5-41 HERE [/edit]