Override WCS Offset in Operation

[Anonymous]

It would be nice to have the "Override WCS Offset" feature incorporated into the tool orientation portion of each operation. Currently we create subfolders from our original setup WCS and override it that way (dropping our operations into the subfolder). This can be quite time consuming on trickier geometry with many different angled faces.

[rgollob]

Worth noting that this is necessary on machine's that don't have a built in rotation calculator. Some older machines and most 3 axis machines that have been outfitted with a 4th axis rotary.

[Laurens-3DTechDraw]

@Anonymous

Not to take away from the idea. But I'm not sure how it can be really time-consuming to move operations into a folder.

I personally also think with the folders it's more clear what operations are outputted in what WCS than just a box inside the operation. 

The folder can show the workoffset to you already.

@rgollob

it's not necessary on those machines depending on how you program.

If you program from the center of rotation there is no issue. If you don't then you are right you will need a whole lot of extra things to keep in mind, you will also need a new location for the WCS most probably. And like no standard post is set-up for that.

[rgollob]

@Laurens-3DTechDraw

Yes that is correct, if you program to center of rotation. but we find it more accurate to keep the offsets local to each fixture.

That aside, yes on simple parts "moving an operations into a folder" is easy and doesn't take much time, but when you have a complex aerospace part that requires a lot of rotational changes back and forth your creating a lot of folder. And the process is a little more convoluted than you make it sound. What Robert is implying is that if we have to check the boxes to set the rotation anyways, why not just have a work offset override check box right underneath it with a place to select the number. very simple and less time needed.

and naming your operation with the rotation at the end would solve your problem and you could also still use folders if that's how you like to see those operations...   

[Laurens-3DTechDraw]

@rgollob
I understand 1 or 2 clicks would be easier than 5. But you must also understand that this box in the operation could cause harm to many people who do not program this way. 1 false move and you would have a massive crash at the machine you can't see in simulation or anticipate.
Where as with the current way there is no other way than deliberate, to change the workoffset mid program.

[rgollob]

@Laurens-3DTechDraw

That's a valid concern however we'll have to agree to disagree on the one. Checking the box and changing the work offset inside the operation is just as deliberate as changing it in the folder. I support Roberts Idea and I hope others with see the simplicity in this as well. Lots of shops choose keep the work offset local on multi-axis machine center as well and this would be a time saver for those of us that do. I appreciate the discussion Lauren. Have  a good weekend.

[Greg_Haisley]

The CAM system I used before HSMWorks (OneCNC) had this very function. Very handy at times. All that has to be done is a WCS field that the user selects  the WCS of his choosing for that operation. If no WCS selected than the current WCS is used. How can this be screwed up by mistake? Better than a check box IMHO. The setup sheet would highlight the WCS on the print out per operation. Pretty simple function that gives the programmer a cleaner option.

[martin.walter]

Almost (thought about it->)Every other CAM System I've used so far has this very function/ability.

@Laurens-3DTechDraw: I can see, that you think this might increase the chance of a crash in case of misuse, on the other hand it's just annoying as hell, if you're used to be able to adjust the workoffset per operation.

In my opinion it's not as simple as you put it.

One example where that won't work so well, would be a part with many different holes and threads on different workplanes(think special hydraulic blocks), where you would want to order the operations in folders per tool or diameter.

Now... in series production you would have to minimize tool changes(otherwise just not acceptable).

In case you used folders for the workoffsets aswell, you would either have to create untold numbers of folders (not much fun...),

or you'd have to use the reordering of the post.

Alas using the post (or pattern) reordering I've found it to wreak havoc with manual NC Commands (a problem at least for me because I heavily use manual NC actions to circumvent a ton of problems like a missing start angle parameters for thread milling or other parameters that should be there but aren't).

I find the reson that not being possible almost as hard to understand as not being able to increment workoffsets in a pattern (which in my opinion is much worse, and for customers with complicated series programs it is a disaster - but I've given up on that for the near future, and don't want to start rambling about that one, sorry...).

regards, 

Martin

[Laurens-3DTechDraw]

@martin.walter 

I think in HSMWorks there was some work done to allow for this and I'll dive into it for Fusion and Inventor HSM.

[emlyn.stansbie]

Well said @martin.walter @Anonymous 

This is a great idea and would save a lot of creation and/or duplication of 'Setup Folders'.

Programming large multi-faced components on horizontal machining centres would be far more easier with this option and you wouldn't need to keep creating/duplicating a new setup folder everytime you had to rotate to a new B axis rotation.

It would also be a big nightmare if you were to update the 3D CAD model of the fixture or stock say......!!

In addition, if you were to use the extended offsets P1-P49 you could end up with hundreds or even thousands of setup folders depending on the complexity of the part.