Moving the "Fusion 360" Directory on Mac

[Anonymous]

When I first opened Fusion, it created a directory in my Documents folder (I'm on Mac), with 5 empty sub directories called "design rules, electronics cam, scripts, spice, and ulps". I tried deleting it, but it gets created again whenever I open Fusion. I can't figure how to remove it/relocate it, so I would love some help doing so. Thanks!

[lance.carocci]

I fully understand why the install configuration is undesirable, but I also have the internal insight as to why it and other workflows currently exist the way they do, and the roadblocks preventing us from easily changing them (especially relative to tackling other feature requests). Still, your detailed feedback helps me to build a case as to why this needs to change, and I continue to advocate on your behalf even if it feels like radio silence.

[beananimal]

While I appreciate the feedback and advocacy, these issues are years old and numerous. The focus stealing issue is the most bothersome and mostly an easy fix, but the devs refuse to address it. Yes, the installer problems are baked in at this point but something has to give…. It appears that the app is built on a deprecated component stack… so I assume a full rework has to be coming. I hope these issues are slated to be fixed.fixed.

[lance.carocci]

The focus stealing issue is the most bothersome and mostly an easy fix, but the devs refuse to address it.

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Refuse is a strong word - this is a bug I have personally investigated on and off over the last few years, and we have made numerous code changes in an attempt to mitigate or fix it outright. It probably will take a refactor of some sort, but that is not a decision we take lightly.

[ambrose]

Hi @lance.carocci ,

it's nice to hear from someone at Autodesk on this. It can feel a bit like screamintothevoid.com around here some times! Can you share any more about the nature of the roadblocks you mention? Are they technical or organisational? Several other Autodesk apps also put unwanted (and often empty and unused) folders in "My Documents". Having that as the default location is one thing, but we need the ability to change where these things go.

If refactoring the code to move a folder is scary, then the codebase must be a real mess. Which would not be surprising, given that fusion is a frankenCAD, cobbled together from dozens of different codebases Autodesk has acquired over the years.

To stand back a bit, it seems to me that Autodesk tends to rush software development, getting the new features to a saleable state as quickly as possible. So far so agile. However, things seem to get neglected once they are "(mostly) working". There seems to be a lack of willingness/resources to do the maintenance, housekeeping and polishing that many of the users would like.

Basically, I think Autodesk has built up too much technical debt and should give its dev teams a year or so of feature freeze so they can pay of some of that technical debt.

From Wikipedia

Technical Debt

"In software development, technical debt is the implied cost of additional rework caused by choosing an easy solution now instead of using a better approach that would take longer. Analogous with monetary debt, if technical debt is not repaid, it can accumulate "interest", making it harder to implement changes."

[beananimal]

Focus Stealing - Mentioned here, albeit not the topic of the thread, goes to the frustration with the MacOS client. 

I am not trying to beat you up Lance - and I understand that some of the issues are deeply embedded (installer, floating point maths errors in dimensions and extend to faces etc. ) and very hard to fix.  But, there are countless other issues that are just whistled past daily in favor of "new" features aimed at new sales. Fine, but 3-5 years later and we are still screaming about the same issues in addition to new issues.

Refusal comes in many forms - In this case, I am going to assume part of the issue is 'refusal' to abandon poorly implemented ideas and not refusal to acknowledge there are issues that need to be fixed. 

Example - There is absolutely ZERO reason that Fusion360 should use an internal popup notification to indicate loss/change of internet or other status changes. The extremely simple fix would be to disable the popups, PERIOD.  The complexity may building the PROPER MacOS Notification or Windows Notification replacement, but just disabling this focus stealing crap would likely please 100% of us even if the replacement is never built. Nobody cares to be notified by F360 eery time their network connection drops or changes. 

Example - When a tool is left open and focus is moved to another application, Fusion360 (constantly) steals focus back  to remind us that the the tool is left open and automated backups can't process. The fix is easy. Remove the 100% useless popup. It serves absolutely zero real world purpose. This fix is not a code complexity. If you feel it is important then write the interface to send this to the OS notification area, but reality is that nobody really cares to see the warning. To that end - the timeline was backed up at some interval before the tool opened - so  with the tool open there is likely nothing new to backup. If loss of recent changes are that important, then the backup interval should be adjusted and the open tool becomes even less relevant. Just disable the **** popups please. 

Example - Remove the advertising Popup that is shoved in our faces upon start - and/or sometimes when the internet is re-connected. Again the OS notification area or the AD messages location is the proper place fore this. Why is this an issue? Because somebody at AD cares more about shoving an advertisement in our faces than they do our user experience. The fix is simple, stop doing it. This is not a code complexity. it is a refusal to reverse course.

[karolisd]

.... 3 years after this thread was started, ....  the problem seems to be getting worse instead of getting fixed. 

Not only ~/Documents/Fusion 360 is still there, but there are some new ones as well:

~/'Fusion 360 CAM'

~/Autodesk/'Fusion 360 CAM'

I have no idea what these folders do but I'm afraid that removing them might mess up all of my CAM settings. Basically my home directory is getting cluttered with Fusion 360 garbage.

[mattZ2UV]

Finding this frustrating too...  is there still no fix (after a few years)?

Everything in the 'Documents' folder is backed up to iCloud (that is a pretty generic situation across all Mac users) - that I pay for and so use for personal use only.   All my work files live in a separate base folder that syncs and is backed up separately and paid for by work.  

Therefore, when this application (that I use for work) create folders is a set place that can't be moved - it is forcing me to use and pay for iCloud space unnecessarily.  This really needs to be looked at with a little more seriousness, rather than just thinking a few customers are being fussy about their folder system.  Especially given that you are most likely causing the majority of Mac users with your products the same issue.

[ambrose]

I hadn't considered that @mattZ2UV. It's all the more reason for it to be fixed. All it would take is a setting allowing the user to specify a different folder.

[lance.carocci]

Thanks for mentioning the cloud backup scenario, @mattZ2UV. For my notes, would you mind telling me approximately how large your Fusion 360 folder is currently within the Documents directory?

I see there is also an Autodesk directory within Documents now - that one I am unfamiliar with, but it couldn't hurt to get a size reading on that folder, too, if you have it.

[beananimal]

Respectfully Lance, your question illustrates the systemic issue regarding this product and its development and state. You are worried about a folder size when it HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the context of the issue.

This thread is about the non-standard way in which this product approaches everything, and in this case the fact that it stores USERS DATA in NON-STANDARD locations on a MacOS system. It is more than a minor inconvenience for most MacOS users and is one of NUMEROUS bad (extremely bad) design patterns baked into this product. PERIOD!

[lance.carocci]

@beananimal, It has specifically to do with the aforementioned cloud storage scenario. Part of my process here is anticipating questions and potential challenges to requested features and app changes. I ask for these details to facilitate advocating on your behalf and to make a compelling case for prioritizing development over other prior commitments. It's not my goal to undersell your current experience to product managers.

it is forcing me to use and pay for iCloud space unnecessarily.

We certainly don't want that, but inevitably someone is going to ask how much? If we're talking about a paid tier of cloud storage, it's obviously more than a mere, say, 5MB of data. So, how much are we talking?

[beananimal]

You just chiseled my point in stone, Lance!!!!
You entirely have missed the entire context of this thread in favor of looking for a solution that you were not asked to look for. Cause and effect, we want you to eliminate the cause, not look for a solution to the effect. 

Analogy:

US: "Hey you guys keep hitting baseballs through my windows and my homeowner's insurance keeps going up. I am going broke fixing these windows. Why don't you guys please put home plate over here and hit towards the 30 acre field like everyone else?"

Expected response: "Ahhh Okay, we will stop hitting baseballs toward your house!"

Your response: "Can you tell me how much windows cost and what your homeowners insurance says about accidental damage?"

[lance.carocci]

If I understand your analogy correctly: we are currently focused on patching gopher holes and refurbishing some old infrastructure at the park. If you can help me understand how often you are replacing windows and the magnitude of the damage, I can make a case to let the gophers roam free for a bit while we address your concerns. Please understand that it's not as simple as picking up and moving home base - the entire field will need to be adjusted with it, and that will require some surveying and mapping before breaking ground.

[sweavertheslayr]

Hey @lance.carocci, and thank you for the information you have provided so far. Windows user here so might be different but my Fusion 360 folder placed under documents is 0 bytes, just a directory with 5 empty directories. Attached is an image of the subdirectories. I only do basic modeling in Fusion so while it is empty for me there are likely some more advanced uses that populate this folder. Hopefully we can move this directory soon.

[beananimal]

 I don't prefer to speak in analogy, the goal was to get you to understand the point that you are clearly (still) missing. 

I think anybody with any shred of common sense understands that the fixes are not simple and in-fact are baked into the foundation of this product. That does not mean that they should not be addressed. Worse than not being fixed, you folks continue to build on those anti-patterns and continue to introduce more. The "cloud" tie-in an "log-in" model only further add to the mess. It is NOT clean and not user friendly.

The entire "update" process is a nightmare and gets worse with each iteration, not better. The folder locations are only a small part of this mess. 

The pop-up dialogs in the interface continue to be built upon, instead of moving them to the native OS notification interface.

The focus stealing and graphics clipping issues related to the the minimized or background F360 application continued to get worse, not better. Your application is typically not the sole workflow on a computer and it should respect other applications and workflows. It does not, not by a long shot. 

The idle application generating "certificate" errors if left open too long is another problem.

There are a laundry list of significant problems, many of them dating back 3-5 years or more and many of them new with each "update". This entire thread, and a dozen others like it follow the same pattern. We raise serious concerns and AD asks silly questions and nothing every changes. 

[ambrose]

@lance.carocci I can understand your point. On the surface this seems like it should be an easy fix: just change an internal parameter and move a folder. However the reality is that beneath the surface of Fusion360 lies a cobbled together Frankenstein's monster style amalgamation of different software Autodesk has purchased over the years (Eagle, FeatureCAM, Meshmixer, 3DS Max, Maya, Inventor etc.). This has allowed Autodesk to create a very featureful CAD program in a relatively short timeframe, but it inevitably means things are not straightforward behind the scenes. Changing anything is quite possibly going to break stuff in unexpected ways.

I hope that the infrastructure work you speak of will unify things and make simple changes (like moving a directory) easier in future. I hope you can present this as an example of something that should be a simple fix, and perhaps as a test case.

@beananimal I feel your pain. I have actually abandoned the "My Documents" folder on windows because so many pieces of software think they own the place and fill it with clutter. I have also stopped using Fusion 360 and won't be using it again until it stops pretending to be "Cloud" software (it isn't). I could write volumes about my criticisms of it, but doing it here would muddy the waters. I know it's frustrating, enraging even, but if you keep to the point, you are more likely to get what you want. (I don't always manage this either, only human.) 

[mattZ2UV]

Hi @lance.carocci,  I'm a new user and so the Folder at this time is pretty empty.  It's more the point that I am assuming it is placed there for a reason and I am assuming it will grow in size over time!   However, the whole way 'Documents' is set up is that it is meant to be full of 'my documents' - items of my choosing, organised as I choose.  If all software started adding random folders and files to the Documents folder, then we'd all have to start creating a second folder called 'More Documents'!!!    It kinda negates the reason for a Documents folder existing in the first place.  The correct place for application files and folders, is funnily enough in a folder named Applications!  Really software should place items in these logical places or at least ask on download/set-up where you want them placed!

[lance.carocci]

Hi folks,

It sounds like we're getting to a point where these directories will no longer be needed. I don't have a specific timeline to share, but plans are being made to eventually remove them entirely.

[ambrose]

@lance.carocci That's great news, thanks for the update.

[lance.carocci]

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@karolisd wrote:

Not only ~/Documents/Fusion 360 is still there, but there are some new ones as well:

~/'Fusion 360 CAM'

~/Autodesk/'Fusion 360 CAM'

I have no idea what these folders do but I'm afraid that removing them might mess up all of my CAM settings. Basically my home directory is getting cluttered with Fusion 360 garbage.

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This appears to be a bug on the Mac side with how we are referencing relative paths compared to Windows. The CAM team will be looking at this and may adjust the placement of these directories to be more consistent across platforms, and hopefully in a destination more to your liking.