Fusion 360 - Cloud solving will be the only option available for all simulation

[hmortim]

In the latest update notes of Fusion360 there is a notice:

https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/blog/august-2022-product-update-whats-new/

"Simulation

Update to Fusion 360 Simulation Extension Local Solve Capabilities 

In the up-coming September update for Fusion 360, local solving for Linear Static stress, Modal, Thermal, and Thermal stress study types will be no longer be available.  Cloud solving will be the only option available for all simulation study types as a part of the Simulation Extension.  Going forward, we are focusing on the availability and overall experience that is provided. We are doing this in order to focus on performance, availably, and experience delivered as a part of the simulation workflows. "

Does this mean I will now have to start using cloud credits for the features I used to have access to locally? If that's the case, it's very frustrating because I have invested in an expensive computer to be able to handle this program with ease. I use the Linear Static stress simulation quite often as I make frequent changes to my designs as I R&D. It is not going to make financial sense for me to use this feature on the cloud. My system is quite capable doing it locally without issue.

Please keep the local simulation features available! In fact, I would love to see an expansion of the other simulations to be done locally. Thank you.

[wmhazzard]

I am not happy about that either. I only need static stress simulation a couple times a year and for me, it is faster to local solve than the cloud so I am certainly not going to buy $300 worth of credits for a couple of stress tests when it has been part of the basic package for years. What is next, Sketching extension for only $399 a year?

[pd700]

I agree, replacing local solving with the clouding is a major issue.  It would disrupt my workflow. It also looks all the simulations will be grouped in the cloud extension for a cost of $1600/yr.

[jeremy.006]

Yes, this is a real bummer. I'm assuming that they announced it so soon before removing so there isn't any time for there to be a backlash...

One of the ways I justified the price of fusion to myself was that I could do simple simulations, but now it seems that is not going to be possible anymore. I'm starting to get quite concerned about which other features are going to be moved behind a double paywall.

[hmortim]

We need to raise awareness as fast as we can and let Autodesk know this is unacceptable.

[jeremy.006]

I guess we need to wait until "fusion 720" to get all of the features back for a few years, and then they can then remove them all once again. 🙃

[TrippyLighting]

@jodom4 can someone from Autodesk provide more specifics , please?

Fusion 360 once was supposed to democratize design. When did that ship sink?

[tjslo]

Agree. We've got 7 seats of Fusion360 in the company, and are not simulating enough for the simulation extension to make much sense for those (although we are using thermal stress, linear stress and thermals as part of the R&D process). I've already got new colleagues who've come from SolidWorks agitating to move us all over to that product, so this sort of thing only helps their case.

[alan.jonesXHXUF]

Same boat here. We pretty much only use linear static stress, and maybe use it in a few sporadic bursts a year as designs are optimised, I prefer to do eveyrthing locally, and as others have mentioned have invested in hardware that can do it. We will never in a million years be paying £1500 a year for simulation on top of the Fusion subscription. 

[rahul.patil]

Hello Everyone,

Thank you for sharing your concerns.

We are continuously working towards expanding the capabilities, improve performance and experience delivered as part of the Simulation workflows in Fusion 360. This change will allow us to focus on these items and provide you with better overall experience of using Simulation in Fusion 360.

As this change might impact your workflows, I wanted to mentioned the below options you will have for continuing to use Simulation in Fusion 360 with cloud solve - 

1. Pay per result: You can run the simulation jobs on the cloud by paying for them with tokens. Token rates for different study types can be found here - Tokens for Fusion 360 Simulation studies
   

   Important Note: As of January 18, 2022, the cost of running Linear Static Stress analyses on the cloud are included as part of your Fusion 360 subscription

2. Subscribe to the Simulation Extension: By subscribing to the Simulation Extension (monthly or annually), you can submit as many job on the cloud as you wish without having to pay with tokens per study for the duration of your subscription to the Simulation Extension. You can find more information here - Fusion 360 Simulation Extension

If you have questions or concerns about this change, more information is available here - Updates to Fusion 360 Simulation and you can reach out to us at Fusion360SIM@autodesk.com

Best regards,

[wmhazzard]

How exactly will using only the cloud improve performance? 

For me a local solve is way faster than using the cloud so removing local solve will hurt performance for me. 

Use tokens huh? Minimum order 500 tokens at $1500 and they expire after one year, I don't think so. Make the minimum order 10 and no expiration date and people will buy tokens. 

Basically you are removing a feature that has been available for years to paid and free subscriptions in order to make more money.  

Important Note: As of January 18, 2022, the cost of running Linear Static Stress analyses on the cloud are included as part of your Fusion 360 subscription

But may change at any time.

[jeremy.006]

Allow me to translate with a bit of creative, opinion-based interpolation:

"Our executive bonuses are predicated on revenue growth every quarter, but we have reached the point of diminishing returns in being able to increase revenue through innovation and adding new features to Fusion 360. Thus, we are now trading off the loyalty of early users in order to deliver those executive bonuses by removing existing features and making existing customers pay to use them again; in our minds, the early adopters don't really contribute much to revenue so they are kind of pointless to keep around anyway. Please understand that it was your fault all along for putting your trust in a corporation, and rest assured that we will continue to move features behind a further paywall as our revenue targets inevitably increase over time, as ultimately we define a "sustainable business" as one that has infinite growth."

[hmortim]

I have a network connection in my area that is quite unreliable, even though it's the most expensive one available. When the network goes down, I still need to work. When I am on the go without a network at all, I still need to work. 

The pay per result model sucks. My computer is smarter and faster than your cloud. Your new model will only slow me down and cost me money in several obvious ways. 

The Subscribe to the Simulation Extension is just bs. I can currently submit as many jobs off the cloud as I wish without having to pay with tokens, as I ALREADY PAY for the simulation function in my yearly subscription. So what I paid for earlier is just going to go away without pro-rating my cost of service? 

I do not want a pro-rate, BTW, I want to keep my features that I pay for. If Autodesk takes away the few local simulating functions, then how about ALL simulating functions be available at no cost in the cloud. But still, we have to rely on the reliability and speed of your network, if it's accessible to us. 

Bottom line - Just make all simulating functions available locally and on the cloud and let us decide which to use. 

[hamid.sh.]

---

@rahul.patil wrote:

Hello Everyone,

Thank you for sharing your concerns.

We are continuously working towards expanding the capabilities, improve performance and experience delivered as part of the Simulation workflows in Fusion 360...

---

I mean with this "Performance" of cloud simulation I might be ok to pay tokens in order to solve locally 🤔:

Exact same models and simulation setup. Local: ~ 15 s, Cloud: ~ 6 minutes

[urban_harrysson]

Each token cost 3USD. For a simple analysis the cost would be 3 token * 3 USD = 9 USD. Anyone that have been working with analysis knows that you can do 10-20 iterations for a design, correcting misstakes and changing design, to get the result you want to have. That would now cost me 90 - 180 USD! on top of the 3 year license I bought with this included. On top of that the capabilities of fusion 360 analysis is limited compared to a FEM software like ANSYS, also for simpel analysis's. 

The next shoe to drop will probably be E-cad, once all Eagle users are drawn into Fusion 360.  

[ea425019]

Is unlimited cloud simulation going to be available with the present subscription during the years to come? or just since "Jan 2022".  Past isn't a clear indicator of future?

I also benefit from offline simulation capability, i.e. when on an airline.

Do any of these changes mention improvements to shell simulations, i.e. thin wall section tubes, which are a weakness of F360 presently?

I realize inflation is here, so it is best if Autodesk just raises base subscription rate to a level that follows that.  Changing an offering is not well received in industry, more akin to a furniture store marketing plan.  Changing price of existing offerings is acceptable however, if it is competitive.

[AdamEllison]

This is a surprising and disappointing move from Autodesk, I work with various companies, all on Solidworks, and they are always impressed when I can run a quick local solve live during a meeting for simple FEA tasks. One company switched to a paid Fusion360 license as a result of seeing this. The cloud solver is too slow for the price and lacks the availability of local solve (connectivity issues etc.).

Please seriously reconsider removing local solve capabilities, this is a bad move and reduces the value of Fusion360 substantially.

<edited after learning that static simulations will be free (but for how long?)>

[hmortim]

I sent an email to Fusion360SIM@autodesk.com with my concern. I included the link to this forum in the email as well. 

I encourage all others to do so as well.

[keqingsong]

Hey all, thanks for the feedback. We made blog post last night in response to what we've been hearing from the community, going over more in detail why we are moving solvers to the cloud. Check it out here and give it a read. 

https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/blog/heres-why-were-moving-all-simulation-solves-to-the...

As I summarized in the Fusion 360 Users Group on Facebook, we 100% get the sentiment that we moved something that was there for a long time, and we definitely should have given you a heads-up sooner. This is not about reducing costs via dev time or charging you more money, this is about focusing dev time on the right architecture. Yes, we moved these solvers to the cloud, but again, Linear Static Stress is still free and costs you nothing to run via the cloud. If Modal, Thermal, and Thermal Stress is absolutely critical for you and this change will be a blocker for you, reach out to us at Fusion360SIM@autodesk.com and we'll figure out a solution together.

Building software is an iterative process; what made sense a few years ago may not make sense in the future. As mentioned in the blog post, continuing to support local solvers makes Fusion 360 more dependent on OS platforms and hardware. This means for each OS and platform, code needs to be compiled and tested, especially with each new version of the OS. This is not a scalable way for us evolve, hence why solvers are moving to the cloud.

[sqwert]

I have a Maya indie , 3ds Max indie and Fusion360 subscription with about 6 months left and do not intend to retain any of them for my work in the games industry. 

I have found them to be slow, stale, unstable. 

You use single threaded viewports that are unable to update fast or lag when I select a high poly mesh.