Running Fusion with Rosetta 2 on Apple ARM-based M1 Chipsets

[keqingsong]

July 5, 2023 Update 

Hello all, the current Insider Build of Fusion now has native Apple Silicon support, and as you read some of the latest comments in this thread, the results are looking great. Our goal is make it available to everyone by our next product update, which should be happening towards the end of the month. If you want to try it now, you can sign up to join our Insider Program, and get access to the Insider Build. Keep in mind that once you become a member, you are under NDA and cannot sharing information publicly, with the exception of this particular project since it is already public knowledge. 

Click this link to sign-up and join: https://www.autodesk.com/campaigns/fusion-360/insider-program

Thank you to those you have who've expressed interested and have been testing it! Please continue to let us know about your experiences. 
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November 23, 2022 Update

As you know we have been working closely with Apple on native support for Fusion on Apple Silicon Chipsets (i.e. M1 & M2). We are pleased to announce that we expect to achieve full native support by Summer of 2023.

As we have explained in this thread, the delay is a result of the need to ensure 100% compatibility between components from over 100 3rd party vendors including Autodesk.

If you want to access this functionality as soon as possible, please consider joining the Insider Program. If you have any questions on the topic please contact @Rajkumar.ilanchelian.

October 28, 2021 Update

Hey all, thanks again for the passionate discussion here. Even though we haven't chimed into this thread as much as we wanted, we are reading every single response and are actively working on getting Fusion to be natively supported on the new Apple chipset. Here's what I know from talking to the development teams: 
We are actively working on getting native support. This is still going to take some time because Fusion uses a multitude of services to work the way it does (Autodesk-owned as well as 3rd party) many of which are also not natively supported on M1 chipsets yet. We are collaborating closely with those teams to taking the necessary steps to ensure that the services we use are also natively supported. There is a lot of passion internally to get this done as well, so we definitely feel you. Again, I can't not say when this will happen, but as soon as we have something more concrete to share, we'll be sure to update you all. 

April 29, 2021 Update

We've been actively working on resolving the issues mentioned below and are glad to report that these issues no longer exist when running Fusion on the M1 chipset. We are also working closely with Apple and are in the process of certifying Fusion as 100% compatible running on M1 chipsets via Rosetta 2. 

In terms of running Fusion natively on the M1 chipset without Rosetta 2, we are still working towards this goal but is going to take some time to reach. We are confident to say that running Fusion on the M1 chipset via Rosetta 2 should be indistinguishable from running it on an Intel-based chipset, if not faster. 

If there are specific issues you've experience and are not mentioned below (strike-through items), please chime in and respond to this thread so we are aware and can look into it ASAP. Thank you for your continued support! 

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Apple's original press release 

We are delighted to see Fusion being featured in the most recent Apple ARM-based M1 Macbook Pro announcement. Although Fusion isn’t natively compatible on Apple’s new M1 chipset architecture yet, Rosetta 2 should enable you to run Fusion*. We will be sure to keep you posted on our progress towards support of Apple’s new line of chipsets.   

-  
   
* While much of Fusion 360 works as expected under Rosetta 2, we discovered that some Fusion 360 components were not yet compatible. If you run Fusion 360 using Rosetta 2, you may experience issues in these areas:  

·         Switching Team Hubs in the Data Panel  

·         Insert from McMaster-Carr  

·         Explore Generative Design and Electronics Cooling Simulation results  

·         ECAD Tool Libraries and Content Manager  

·         Local Simulation Solves utilizing NASTRAN  

If you rely on the impacted areas for your work, we recommend you to stay on Intel-based Macs until we have these issues sorted out.   

[gennady.plyushchev]

Fusion with Rosetta on mac M1 is nightmare. It works really badly. I use Fusion everyday. It impressive how bad it become, considering that now it is quite expensive (I have paid version)!

It freezes all the time. It is super slow. When the model is a little complicated it crushes. It uses enormous amount of memory (simple model eats 5Gb). To work I am forced to divide my design on multiple parts (as single part is too big for fusion to process it). Recently I tried mesh, this was even bigger disappointment: what meshmixer can process easily, Fusion on Mac M1 cannot process at all.

And the greatest shame, that autodesk cannot even tell us, when this will be fixed!!!

[philletourneau]

It's really discouraging that Fusion still isn't natively compiled for Apple Silicon. Considering how resource intensive an application it is, you would think this would be a top priority within the company.

And now with the release of the stunning new MacBook Pros with the M1 Pro and M1 Max SOC's, they would be amazing mobile CAD workstations if Fusion would run natively.

[TrippyLighting]

@philletourneau Are you sure you have read all the posts in this thread and researched the topic properly before posting?

I know of a number of people including some Autodesk Exper Elites who report excellent performance of Fusion 360 on M1 macs. I don't find that discouraging at all!

Also, converting this to a different processor platform is a lot more involved than just re-compiling code. 

[philletourneau]

Rosetta 2 is an emulation layer. While Fusion360 probably "works fine" using Rosetta, it's undeniably not as performant as it could be if it was compiled natively for Apple Silicon.

I've worked for software companies developing on Apple platforms since 2004, I'm not ignorant to the effort required for this type of transition. Hell, we made the transition from PowerPC to Intel on our own products, and it wasn't terribly difficult. The M1 has been out for a while... I would like at least some indication that this is a real priority, especially since they were showcased with other vendors at the unveiling of the M1 in the first place.

I'm not disparaging Autodesk. Fusion is one of my very favourite applications. I use it every day, and every day I wish it was faster.

[TrippyLighting]

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@philletourneau wrote:

Rosetta 2 is an emulation layer. While Fusion360 probably "works fine" using Rosetta, it's undeniably not as performant as it could be if it was compiled natively for Apple Silicon.

---

Right, I also wish it would be faster, but I don't find it discouraging that we don't have a native implementation yet.

There have been other threads where it was shared that 3rd party software products e.g. libraries have yet to be updated.

I am also wondering if Autodesk will move away from OpenGL to one of the graphics API's promoted by Apple. That would possibly be needed for truly native performance.

Many of the Fusion 360 team members use macs including @keqingsong so I am confident that this is a proiority.

[gennady.plyushchev]

Fusion with M1 works fine only if you try simple model. If you try something a little more complicated, like gears, it will consume all resources and will be painfully slow. Thus first simple tests always shows that it works. But when you start to do real work, you see all the problems. 

I tried competitor CAD program, optimized for M1, and it consumes 10 times less memory as Fusion for the same model!!! (Unfortunately, it does not have some functions, which are important for me. So I forced to use Fusion). 

[gennady.plyushchev]

Probably with 32Gb of memory Fusion will work fine with Rosetta, but this is way beyond my budget (I think many people will agree with me).

[TrippyLighting]

Please open a new thread and share your model.

In my vast experience most people that claim performance problems use Workflows that are not recommended.

[gennady.plyushchev]

I use Fusion daily for five years already. I doubt that my workflow is wrong. 

Take any model with couple gears, and it will slow the Fusion significantly. 
Example:

the same (relatively simple) model on Fusion eats 3Gb of memory

the same model on Sharp3D eats only 400Mb. 

The conclusion is simple: Autodesk have most of the users in Windows, they don’t care about Mac users. The fact that they don’t give any date for the native M1 support, means that it is not going to be done for at least next 12 months. 

BTW soon most of their windows users will migrate to Solidworks (cheaper). 

[TrippyLighting]

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@gennady.plyushchev wrote:

I use Fusion daily for five years already. I doubt that my workflow is wrong. 

I have used CAD, other 3D modeling software and computer graphics professionally for over 30 years. I have over 17000 post on this forum, and over 2000 times users have accepted my posts as the solution to their CAD problems. That includes many users including very experienced users who though that their workflow was not the problem.

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@gennady.plyushchev wrote:

..

Take any model with couple gears, and it will slow the Fusion significantly. 

---

As mentioned already, share your mode in a separate thread and then we can see what the problem is. Some gear plugins create huge, unconstrained  sketches and that indeed slows down Fusion 360.

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@gennady.plyushchev wrote:

The conclusion is simple: Autodesk have most of the users in Windows, they don’t care about Mac users.

Did you read my previous posts ? Many of the Fusion 360 team member of whom I know several personally use macs.

Your conclusions are unfounded!

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@gennady.plyushchev wrote:

BTW soon most of their windows users will migrate to Solidworks (cheaper). 

---

I sit in front of a computer with SolidWorks every day and have used SW since 1998. I also know precisely what we pay for SW. That means, of course we use SW professionally for commercial purposes. I don't know where you get your information from, but the statement that SW is cheaper than Fusion 360 is also not the case whatsoever!

[gennady.plyushchev]

I only have 20y experience in CAD (Solidworks + Fusion). 

Solidworks for makers is 99$/year (since this September). For Fusion I pay 500$/year.

BTW, I think, you are using Solidworks because it can easily handle very large models. In my experience, for Fusion 20+ parts is already a lot. In Solidworks I worked with 100+ parts without problem. I think this is the main reason why in industry they prefer Solidworks over Fusion.

The main advantage of Fusion for me is support of Mac. It is shame that Fusion does not properly use M1 potential (like Sharp3D (Sharp3D has a lot of other problems)).

If many people in Fusion development team use Macs, does not mean that they will prioritise Mac users. Most probably (and we see this) they will prioritise Windows users (majority of users). This is normal. I can understand this.

[bmxjeff]

I have been following this thread to keep track of the M1 progress, and see how the Rosetta 2 emulator is working in the mean time. This morning I had 14 or so emails from this thread. 😀 None of them were good. There's the answer! 

If you run a mechanical design business and you relay on Fusion 360, buying a new computer with a new chip, that runs fusion on top of an emulator... that's a big risk. As designers, we know the First of anything will be trouble.

Sharp3D? Of course they have updated the Kernel to run on M1. It will be 100% of their business. And it's a simple program by comparison. CAM, Nastran, Generative Design, V-Ray Rendering, Animation, Motion studies....All of which were Ported from PC.... Updating the Kernel for Fusion is a massive undertaking.

Autodesk should wait and get it right. In the meantime... It was designed to run on intel.  

[johnanger]

Hi - I'm reading this thread and - as usual on the internet these days - people's views are polarised and hard to assess. Some say fusion barely works at all on M1 and others say it's great - even better than intel based hardware they have. I'm sure each person has their own reasons for their opinion but this is pretty annoying for me just looking for some answers. Is it so hard to clearly say what the general performance will be on the new Macbooks? I have a six year old Macbook pro and while fusion works fine on it I wish the graphics performance was faster. So would spinning a model with a 20 parts and several components on a new Macbook be faster and higher resolution than what I have now? See above for the specs of my current machine. 

Thanks all,

John

[oyvindTMNSU]

@keqingsong  I think the time has come to really priorities the native support of the m1 chips. The last release of m1 pro and m1 max seems to be a giant leap in performance. 

Please give us native support for fusion 360 asap 🙏  I use it every day on my Mac for professional work  and have just ordered a new m1 max mac

[luoguiming0710]

can not open file @Anonymous M1 MacBook air

[sgingras]

You are just 5 updates late.

Nothing to do with M1 or the full moon...

[BeauSlim]

You'll really need to wait and hear from Fusion 360 users about how the new 14" and 16" laptops handle graphics.  My m1 Air is perfectly usable when rotating models, but I think my old machine with an 8GB RX590 was quite a bit smoother. 

The M1 is better in every other way, though. Those long-spinning single-core pauses that come from repeating a pattern cut into a face (and make you wonder if you should go grab a coffee) are so much faster now. 

[keqingsong]

Hey all, thanks again for the passionate discussion here. Even though we haven't chimed into this thread as much as we wanted, we are reading every single response and are actively working on getting Fusion 360 to be natively supported on the new Apple chipset. Here's what I know from talking to the development teams: 
We are actively working on getting native support. This is still going to take some time because Fusion 360 uses a multitude of services to work the way it does (Autodesk-owned as well as 3rd party) many of which are also not natively supported on M1 chipsets yet. We are collaborating closely with those teams to taking the necessary steps to ensure that the services we use are also natively supported. There is a lot of passion internally to get this done as well, so we definitely feel you. Again, I can't not say when this will happen, but as soon as we have something more concrete to share, we'll be sure to update you all. 

As I've shared here and else where, I've been running Fusion 360 on my 13" Macbook Pro M1 without any noticeable performance or usability issues. Do not take this as a recommendation to go pick a brand new MBP just to use Fusion 360 on it. I'm just sharing my experience with it and what I've observed during the time I've been using Fusion 360. 

[oyvindTMNSU]

Hi.

Nice to hear that you are actually working on it! Can't wait for it to be native supported.

So there is no timeline at all? Are we talking a year? Months?

[qkarmark]

Thanks for keeping us in the loop: many people here truly appreciate the efforts, as M1/M1X seems be a game changer for so many other users beyond CAD/CAM solutions: if it has already been report elsewhere in these forums, my apologies, but has Fusion been tested to work as expected under the M1X Rosetta architecture  ?