Fusion Incredibly buggy on late 2021 Macbook M1 Pro Max

[ctbrahmstedt]

Hey all, 

I'm having issue after issue running Fusion on my machine. I am getting bug after bug with fundamental features, like trying to add a dimension to an object, the sketch tree not working properly, erratic behavior with dialog boxes. Bugs that should be caught within 5 minutes of testing the software before deployment. No one else seems to be having these issues. 

Secondly, I've been having issues with the memory pressure with this computer. Not Fusion's fault, but an issue none the less. If I use my computer for about a week without reboot, if I close all open programs, my memory pressure stays a lot higher than it should. After a reboot, everything behaves as normal. Apple suggested it might be a hardware issue. I doubted it, but seeing that I appear to be the only one with these Fusion bugs, I'm starting to think that may be the case. 

Most recently, specifically Sunday night, Fusion crashed (rather hung and then I forced quit), and the project I was working on was not recovered. The other tabs/projects were, but the one I was actively working on was not. After half an hour of digging through the cache, I found the .backup.bak file and renamed it to .f3d, and was able to recover. 

Today, Fusion hung and crashed, as it typically does, when I woke my computer from sleep. However, now it hangs when I just try to relaunch. Splash screen works, then the splash goes away and I'm left with a black white window and then it will hang to eternity. 

Can someone review my logs and see if there may be something hardware/device specific to my crashes?

[Phil.E]

Can you please attach your logs?

[ctbrahmstedt]

Is there an email that I can use to send them directly to you? I looked through the logs and saw project/file names and I'd rather not risk sharing any information from my clients by posting publicly to the forum. 

Here are a small handful of bugs I'm experiencing. These were all recorded over the course of a few minutes. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wy-s0JqCb4M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZwWLxiN9pM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urdBb_Sbtyg

Just now I opened a project where I couldn't get out of the "manufacturing" tab. I would click the tab to go to design, Fusion would flash grey, and then do nothing. I was stuck in manufacturing for that project. Figure I need a restart, so I start saving my other active projects, and on the third-ish one, I hit save and then I can't click on anything else. It's as if there is an active dialog box prompting for input, but it just isn't there. I would hit "show all windows" and the main fusion window is the only one there. I unplugged my external monitor, and then all my windows moved onto my Macbook display where I could then see the save box. 

This is bad, I spend more of my time debugging Fusion than I actually do working on the project itself. I bought this machine specifically because Fusion says it's compatible with Mac. It's not. I posted in a few other places and the answers regarding stability are not the experiences I'm having. I've run Fusion on Windows for years, and it's been great. Sure, tiny bug here and there, but not a show stopper. I've also used Fusion on Intel based Macs, works great. On M1 in Rosetta, at least on the M1 Pro Max machines, it's barely usable. 

Happy to set up a zoom to discuss specifics. 

[Phil.E]

These problems are not reported elsewhere, and may have nothing to do with M1. There are a number of QA testing with M1 machines daily, me included. I run a mini with a single 2k monitor. There are no issues like this in my testing. Perhaps your graphics hardware setup is related to these issues, if you could share details it might help.

The hidden construction line, looks like a graphics issue. If you have a sketch you can share with me to test, or steps to reproduce the issue I can log a bug report. Does this happen any less often after rebooting the computer?

The missing dimension dialog box, may be related to current issues with mac spaces/desktops. Are you moving Fusion between extra desktops at any point? And again, the key to fixing bugs is to trigger them. If I cannot reproduce the issue, a developer cannot debug it. So files and steps to reproduce issues are critical. Another thing you could try is File > view > reset to default layout. That could put dialogs back to the right screen/desktop area.

Again sorry for your trouble. And sorry you missed this in the system requirements before making your purchase:

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/fusion-360-support/running-fusion-360-with-rosetta-2-on-apple-arm-bas...

If you could provide more details about your displays, how often you see these bugs, whether or not you've just restarted your computer, etc. it will help us narrow down the possibilities and test for your personal situation.

[ctbrahmstedt]

Thanks Phil, 

I would love to rule this out, er, in, as a hardware issue. Here's what I got:

2021 Macbook Pro 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD, M1 Pro Max.

Connected to LG Ultrafine Display, 4k via built in HDMI port

Connected to Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 2nd gen audio interface - via USB through a Kingston Nuclem dongle. 

Using Corsair mouse connected through bluetooth. 

No other hardware connected to the machine. I have a NAS as well that I frequently access through Fusion. 

Regarding the issues, they are all intermittent. I almost always run Fusion on the external monitor when I have it connected, but I experience these issues when I'm not connected to the monitor as well. I'd say I'm 70% connected to my monitor, 30% laptop only. These issues will often go away on Fusion restart, or if I open a new project and go back to the old one. They don't seem to be attached to the file. 

Another odd ball one I've experienced more than once is having two projects open at once in two different tabs. Both in manufacturing mode. I will see Project A's toolpath in Project B's workspace. I can orbit, and move everything around great, but that toolpath seems to stuck in space. I can hide it on project A, but it will still appear in project B. 

Someone on a Mac forum had mentioned that Rosetta has memory leaks, perhaps this could be related. I know my memory pressure seems to always go up and I'm forced to restart my machine due to a leak somewhere. There doesn't seem to be a specific thing that triggers the bug, it's just random. I have been CAM heavy the past couple of days and my issues seemed to have happened more often. Mayyybe there's something about CAM that stresses the mac hardware/rosetta causing these issues to happen?

Do you think it could be a bug in my specific hardware? Is there something I could run to check? I have an early supply run of these machines, so I wouldn't rule it out. 

The issues seem to happen less often when I restart my computer, but they can still happen within 10 minutes. It's been maybe 3 days since a hard restart and I have to restart Fusion about every 10 minutes - generally by force after a lock up. 

Regarding me missing the rosetta screenshot you posted. C'mon, on the front page of Fusion there is an Apple logo with no asterisk. On this page https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/fusion-360/troubleshooting/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/Sys... there is nothing that says there are issues on macOS 12 Monterey, not even an asterisk. There's actually no asterisk on the mac requirements at all, but towards the bottom there's one that says: For more information on support for macOS 11.x (Big Sur) running on ARM-based processors-visit this forum post. Doesn't say anything about Monterey. 

Sure, there may be fine print somewhere, but it could definitely be clear. 

Let me know what you think about the hardware, happy to run a few experiments. 

[FrodoLoggins]

---

@ctbrahmstedt wrote:

Most recently, specifically Sunday night, Fusion crashed (rather hung and then I forced quit), and the project I was working on was not recovered. The other tabs/projects were, but the one I was actively working on was not. After half an hour of digging through the cache, I found the .backup.bak file and renamed it to .f3d, and was able to recover. 

This isn't M1 specific. Happens significantly more often than not and I've ran Fusion on 3 different Macbooks (2 Intel) over the years all brand new or wiped completely before installing Fusion.

[Phil.E]

I think it helps to know that recovery save happens at a minimum of 5 minute intervals. And those can be interrupted by running commands. So if you are sketching for hours on end, you may have no recovery saves.

There is a wealth of information in the forums, if you search for it.
https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/fusion-360-support/what-is-recovery-save/td-p/7156450

[FrodoLoggins]

Yup. Set mine to every 10 minutes. Not a recovery file to be seen a good 75% of the time.

Used to be better years ago but not by much.

I'm usually able to find the file within Finder when I really need it though.

[Phil.E]

I've described how a recovery file might not be created due to modeling operations.

If there's a file available it will be on the menu:

Are you saying that you create recovery files, by timing or by manually saving them, and they do not show up in this dialog? (but you can find them in the recovery location)

[ctbrahmstedt]

@Phil.E , @FrodoLoggins , 

I had the file open for a couple of days, while it's possible I didn't have it open for 5 consecutive minutes without it being in the middle of a command, I don't think it was. I was able to find the recovery file in Users/Me/Library/Application Support/.../Crash Recovery. The folder was full of backup files ending in .backup. Changing these extensions to .f3d allowed me to reopen the file. There was one file in there called [stuff].backup.bak. Changing that extension from .backup.bak to .f3d worked and was the recovery file I was looking for. This file was not shown in the recovery options in Fusion. Any idea why that could have happened? This is the first time this has happened, so it's possible it was just a glitch in the matrix. Frodo, I would check there. Here is more information on where the recovery files live: https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/fusion-360/learn-explore/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/How-...

If you are using a Mac, the path they have listed in that document is incorrect. The actual path is: /Users/[user]/Library/Application Support/Autodesk/Autodesk Fusion 360/[garblygoop]/CrashRecovery

'Library' is a hidden folder, so you have to do a magical keyboard command for Mac to show it in finder. Google it, I don't remember it offhand. 

Phil, all that aside considering it was likely an oddball glitch, any idea on what to do regarding this M1 behavior? It's sounding like a hardware specific issue if others are not seeing these problems on their M1 machines. Is there someone I can work with directly that is working on the M1 integration? I'd like to compare notes. 

Thanks!

[Phil.E]

A gentle reminder that the save button is the most productive way to capture your progress in a Fusion 360 design file. If you are going to leave them open for days, or do hours of work, press the save button and "lock in" the progress by storing it in the cloud.

Here is a knowledge article about finding the hidden library folders on macOS:
https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/fusion-360/learn-explore/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/How-t...

Regarding working with engineers: you are right now. It's my job to find, log, and provide issues to developers in a concise and workable way. Unfortunately, what you describe seem to be random and not reproducible effects. Working directly with developers who are busy working on the framework required to implement native M1 support is not going to be productive at this time. They're not working on fit and finish, or Rosetta-2, just now. 

What I will propose is if you can provide design files, Autodesk Screencast videos, and methods to reproduce the issues you are seeing consistently, I can log bug reports and ask for fixes to the current Rosetta-2 implementation. Ultimately, someone is going to have to reproduce the issue in a debugger environment in order to find where it breaks and improve the code. This goes for you and anyone else seeing issues.

At this time, I'm still not convinced these are M1 specific issues you mention, simply because they happen on an M1 machine. These have proven to be red-herrings at nearly every turn. Doesn't mean you haven't found real Rosetta-M1 only bugs, but it hasn't been the general case to-date.

Since your issues seem to be graphics related, can you try a/b testing with various settings and discover if one setting or hardware setup is more problematic? Just about anything to go on besides it randomly happening after hours of work, or having Fusion open for days, will be helpful to debug these issues.

The first thing I'd try is simplifying the graphics as much as possible by turning off all graphics effects, and running on a native monitor. After a fresh reboot of your machine. This is just one method for finding one "edge" of the envelope. If these bugs happen in the most basic setup, then we have a baseline for testing.

[ctbrahmstedt]

Thanks Phil, 

I'll work on trying to reliably reproduce any of the issues. It appears there is a memory leak somewhere in the OS. These issues typically only arise after my memory pressure gets to a certain level in activity monitor. When it gets high - into the yellow - that's when programs start getting buggy. I can close every open app on my computer and the memory pressure remains high. It's only gets back to low after a reboot. 

My backseat driving guess is that there is a bug in Rosetta when trying to emulate something in Fusion. I can only imagine there is some real complicated stuff going on in the background that would be stressing the hell out of Rosetta. The only other intel based apps I run are Preform and Tidal (music). Do you think it could be something to do with the M1 Pro Max chip and not the OG M1 that you are using in your tests? I have no doubt that you guys are putting your best effort into this, I just find it really strange that I seem to be the only one having issues like this. Again, this is an early production run of the Pro Max series, and I could very well have a bug in my specific hardware. I don't see any memory leaking out onto my desk, perhaps just a pinhole defect and the memory sublimates directly into a gas. 

I'll work on some stress tests this weekend and see if I find anything. Thanks.

[jedhelmers]

I'm running through the 30 day free trial. It is almost entirely unusable on an M1 macbook. The project Browser tree will randomly popup on a different desktop overtop a completely unrelated program (ie. browser tree sitting atop Chrome). It will also randomly zoom in/out when panning. The error messages I receive are completely unusable; as a software engineer I'm accustomed to navigating the murky waters of error messages in all sorts of environments.

My workflow is almost entirely mouseless, and I rely heavily on hotkeys; alas, most of the hotkeys I need are attached to a middle-mouse click but I don't use mice. I've worked with Maya in the past and love it, so maybe I'm expecting the hotkeys in 360 to be as intuitive but they're not yet.

It sucks because when I do get something to work properly in 360 I'm thrilled! There are some great features in here, but using them without glitch seems to be outside the realm of possibility.