BUG -- Save as / Export crash Fusion

[skylord73]

Hi all,

I've a complex design and I need to break it in several small ones, but nor Save As or Export are working

If I try to save as for example the Base component, fusion crashes, and the same happens if I try to export it (also past new crashes)

Here is the link (V.178)

http://a360.co/2rtEvO2

If the web will hurry up to send the download mail I'll attach the file..

[skylord73]

Here is the file.

[innovatenate]

If I do a Modify > Compute all of the design, I come across a lot of errors in the timeline. This is most likely the cause of the issue. Have you tried cleaning up these timeline errors? For some features in the timeline a quick fix may be to right click on the feature and select Convert to DM feature (Direct Modeling).

Another option might be to turn off parametric history and then do a Save AS. 

In your timeline, I'm noting some practices that may be contributing to this issue. When creating a component, care should be taken when using cross-component references in the design. Let's take for example in the Base component, there is a component called "X_FK_Support" that is comprised of a sketch and an extrude. The sketch has lost reference to its base plane. The base plane of the sketch, looks like it was the face of another component. Perhaps this component was modified or deleted, leading to an error in the timeline. In this case, it may have been better to create an offset plane to sketch on that references "X_FK_Support" origin plane. If it's not critical for a design to be associated to the source geometry, try breaking links after using the project sketch command. 

You may want to check out my reply in the below post. It may help clarify what I'm trying to say above.

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/design-validate-document/objects-move-after-a-copy/m-p/7108609#M11310...

Timeline Warnings/Errors:

Warning: Sketch2
Project3
Warning: Extrude3
<b>1 Reference Failures</b><br/>Extent boolean fail. The termination entity might be not fully intersected with the tool body built along the operation direction
<b>1 Reference Failures</b><br/>Tool body creation failed
Warning: ImplicitJointOrigin10(Rail)
<b>1 Reference Failures</b><br/>The model is using cached geometry to solve. Please reselect reference geometry for failed features in the timeline.
Warning: Extrude2
<b>1 Reference Failures</b><br/>Extent boolean fail. The termination entity might be not fully intersected with the tool body built along the operation direction
<b>1 Reference Failures</b><br/>Tool body creation failed
Warning: ImplicitJointOrigin1(Rigid1)
<b>2 Reference Failures</b><br/>The model is using cached geometry to solve. Please reselect reference geometry for failed features in the timeline.
Warning: Extrude1
<b>1 Reference Failures</b><br/>Extent boolean fail. The termination entity might be not fully intersected with the tool body built along the operation direction
<b>1 Reference Failures</b><br/>Tool body creation failed
Warning: ImplicitJointOrigin1(Rigid1)
<b>2 Reference Failures</b><br/>The model is using cached geometry to solve. Please reselect reference geometry for failed features in the timeline.

[skylord73]

Regard my timeline you at right, is a mess.
I'm going to export the main components to rebuilt from them because the system is crashing very often.
One of the problems with time line is that some time, when you delete on object, probably because of cross references, some sketches persist and you cannot nor modify nor erase because they do not have a parent component.
If you add that fusion crashes very often, some time is better to start again.
I have a version of the file where after rolling back the time line and changin something, when you go back to the end most of the model is missing and you have to promote the previous version.
I think that there must be more serious controls about references and time line issue, because a commercial program cannot crash because my drawing style is not clean, do you agree?

[innovatenate]

I agree that Fusion should not crash. Fusion 360 should be robust enough to provide you with errors/warning and never crash. I have logged a report (FUS-32992) for development to research this further.

In this case, Fusion 360 does provide you with some warning and errors in the timeline (especially when you use compute all). The crashing piece is unfortunate, but not totally surprising. The forum contains many examples where bad timelines cause issues with Save As, Breaking X-References or Paste New (basically any feature that forces Fusion to have to generate a timeline from an existing bad timeline). Looking forward, I would recommend that you

• do not ignore the warning and errors in the timeline
• regularly use the Compute All command to verify that the timeline computes without errors
• avoid cross component relationships unless completely it is necessary (includes geometry projection, using faces of other cmopoenents as base planes)
• Alway create a component, isolate, and activate a component to help avoid cross-component relationship (unless desired)

Ignoring best practices will get you into trouble in any commercially available design application. Fusion 360 is no different in this case.

If you're not going to carefully manage the cross-component references then it may be better to use a direct modeling approach. In this above example, the result of successfully performing a Save As of the X_FK_Support design will likely result in a design that contains a base feature rather than extrude and a sketch in the timeline anyway.

So the net result is you end up with a direct model anyway. 

Try testing out the below workflows.

Workflow 1:
1. create a sketch in the root of the design
2. create a body from the sketch with some feature (extrude, revolve, etc.)
3. create a component from this body
4. perform a Save Copy As with this component

Workflow 2:
1. Create a new component in the design
2. Activate the component
3. Create a sketch in this component (on the component’s default planes and not the root component’s planes)
4. Create body from the sketch
5. Activate root design
6. Perform save copy as of the component

When you compare the results, you’ll note that the sketch/feature/body will "stick together" with a component using workflow 2. Workflow 2 better preserves the parametric features for later use and helps keep the timeline error free. In workflow1, the parametric features are lost and substituted for a base feature (dumb solid).

Fusion 360, combined with the use of x-references, provides the user with the option to have a mixed approach of direct modeling and/or parametric designs. You don't have to create everything in one design file.  I'm finding the easiest solution is simply to switch to direct modeling and then doing a Save As for the Base component group. Please see the attached file for reference.

I hope this information helps. Please let me know if you have any questions.

[skylord73 · Accepted solution]

I attend your class that was very interesting.
I agree with your considerations but I can say that is very difficult to clean up a timeline if you make same mistakes.
I use fusion as a projecting tool, so things usually changes very often and not being too strict in x-referencncing should happen.

Moving sketches from one component to another is not always possible (if you have some docs about this behavior it will be appreciated) for reasons not always clear to me.
Timeline is a great feature, but not so simple to master!