板金のCAEの仕方

Anonymous

板金のCAEの仕方

Anonymous
適用対象外

板金で箱状の物体をデザインしています。

これをCAEで強度解析したいと思うのですがうまくいきません。良い方法があったら教えていただけないでしょうか。

今やっているのは

 

側板2枚と残りの上下裏表の3個をシートメタルで作成しこの3つをジョイントし、結合用の穴にリベットを模したオブジェクトを

ジョイントしています。(見た目は実物とそっくりになっています。)

これをシミュレーションモードで接触を自動検出させてすべて分離に設定してシミュレーションするのですが、

結果がリベットで結合しているようには見えません。

複数のシートメタルの重なっている部分が接着しているとしてシミュレーションされているとしか思えない結果がでます。

 

試しにリベットを削除して行っても結果が変わったように見えないのでどこかおかしいというのはわかるのですが

どうしたらよいのかがよくわかりません。

 

板金のシミュレーションがうまく行えている方がいたらコツを教えていただけると助かります。

 

よろしくお願いします。

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adachitech7
Consultant
Consultant

具体的な事例で説明された方が回答を得やすくなると思います。

お困りになられている事象をスクショ画像等で説明されるか、もし可能であればデータ共有をしていただけると助かります。

 

データ共有の方法は以下を参考になさってください。

 

アーカイブファイル作成
https://knowledge.autodesk.com/ja/support/fusion-360/troubleshooting/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/...

データ共有
https://knowledge.autodesk.com/ja/search-result/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/JPN/How-to-share-a-Fu...

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Anonymous
適用対象外

アドバイスいただきありがとうございます。

アーカイブファイルを添付いたします。

 

「箱 強度解析テスト」が今回のものです。

シミュレーション結果を見ると板と板が重なっている部分が接着しているかのような結果に見えるのですがシミュレーション設定では分離にしているつもりです。

(穴にリベットが入っていないのは余計なものをすべてなくしてどうなるかを見ているためです。)

 

「リベット接合 解析テスト」というものは確認のため2枚の板金をリベットで接続して引っ張る解析をしたものです。こちらは2枚の板金はリベットでのみ接続しているような

解析結果となっています。これを見て箱でも解析できると思って箱を作り始めたのですがうまくいきません。

 

 

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adachitech7
Consultant
Consultant

まだ全部は検証しきれていないのですが、モデル上で気になったところがいくつかあります。

 

干渉している部分が2か所。

00-1.PNG00-2.PNG00-3.png00-4.png

 

 

穴位置ずれ。(上下共)

00-5.PNG00-6.PNG

 

 

板厚1.2mm×2で2.4mmのはずが微妙に数字が違う。

00-7.PNG

 

 

板厚1.2mm×2+クリアランス0.02mmで2.42mmのはずが微妙に数字が違う。

00-8.PNG

 

 

あとリベットは板が入るところが2.41mmなので、板間の距離が2.42mmあれば干渉しているはずですね。

 

 

実際の設計ではクリアランスを開けるのが当然なのですが、これまでの経験からいくと設計データをそのままCAE解析するとエラーが出ることが多い気がします。

設計のことはひとまず置いておいて、クリアランス0で単純化したモデルを作り、その上で接触条件を設定した方がうまくいくんじゃないでしょうか。

 

この方針でもう少し検証してみます。

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adachitech7
Consultant
Consultant

それらしい結果がでているように思えるのですがいかがでしょうか?

 

01.PNG02.PNG

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adachitech7
Consultant
Consultant

それから2枚の板の寸法測定で微妙な誤差がでるのはFusion360の精度が0.00001であることに起因するようです。

申し訳ありません。

 

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/fusion-360-ri-ben-yu/toreransu-xu-rong-cha-shu-zhinitsuite/td-p/59750...

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Anonymous
適用対象外

いろいろ確認していただきありがとうございます。

穴位置がずれているのは気づきませんでした。ご指摘いただきありがとうございます。

 

もう一つの干渉しているところとご指摘いただいた部分は溶接したいと思っている場所でして解析前に単純化で干渉を解消したつもりでした。

 

この溶接部分がないとシミュレーションはうまくいくのですが、溶接部分があると溶接部分がある板も無い板もどちらも板が重なっている部分が接着されているような結果が

得られるような気がしています。

前回アップロードしたファイルは片方の側板が溶接部分(干渉しているとご指摘いただいた部分)あり、でもう片方の側板が溶接部分なしとして溶接部分なしのほうの解析結果が

どうなるか確認したもので、両方の側板が溶接部分がない場合の解析結果は側板自体が無い場合の解析とほぼ同じとなるのですが、片方の側板に溶接部分があると溶接部分がない側板側も解析結果が変わってしまいます。

 

ちなみに、板間のクリアランスを0.01mm開けて溶接部分のみを結合して全体を一つのオブジェクトにすることも試したのですがこちらもモデル上では拡大すると板と板の間にクリアランスが開いているように見えるのですがシミュレーション結果では板と板の重なり部分が接着しているような結果が得られます。

 

何かご存じであれば教えていただけると助かります。

 

 

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adachitech7
Consultant
Consultant

お知りになりたい事柄を画像でご説明いただけると非常に助かります。

データの方は既に共有していただきましたので、私の方でも色々検証可能です。

 

接触の設定に関しては、一定以下のギャップは一体とみなす設定があるはずです。

確かデフォルトは0.1mmだった気がします。

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adachitech7
Consultant
Consultant

底面手前側のリベット2か所を外し、右側上下を接着した結果です。

特におかしいところはないようですがいかがでしょうか?

 

01.PNG

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Anonymous
適用対象外

いろいろご確認いただいておりありがとうございます。

 

現象をうまく伝えられておらず申し訳ありません。説明文書を作成していますのでそれまで少しお待ちいただけると助かります。

 

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Anonymous
適用対象外

こんにちは。

 

PDFで説明を作成しました。また変な結果が得られるモデルも添付します。

私のソフトウェアへの理解不足、設定ミスが原因であれば申し訳ありません。

 

 

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adachitech7
Consultant
Consultant

リベットなしで接触タイプを分離にされているため、両サイドの板が解析上中空に浮いてしまっているのが原因ではないでしょうか?

 

試しにサイドの板に開いている穴のエッジのみを固定すると正常と思われる結果が出るようです。(左右両方固定しました)

02.PNG03.PNG

 

 

それから意図的に干渉させておられる場所以外にも干渉箇所がありました。

干渉部が解析結果にどう影響を及ぼすのかまだ検証ができていませんが念のためお知らせしておきます。

00.PNG

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Anonymous
適用対象外

確かに側板がどこにも結合されていないというのはおかしなシミュレーションであることはわかっていますが、

とはいえ、どこにも結合されていないはずの部品が力を伝えるという結果が出るのは変ではないでしょうか。

 

いろいろな確認をしていただいて正しい結果がでたということはわかるのですが変な結果が出た理由が知りたいです。

(干渉しているのは反対側の板ですし、単純化で対応してあるので今回の原因ではないと思います)

 

今回は一目でおかしいとわかる状態まで部品を減らしたので正しい、おかしいがわかりますが、ここにすべての部品を追加して

溶接部分を結合したりしていったあとでは結果からシミュレーションがおかしいのか、構造がまずいのかが判断できないように思います。

 

いかがでしょうか。

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adachitech7
Consultant
Consultant
解決済み

干渉をすべてなくして再度解析実行してみました。

 

01.PNG02.PNG

 

 

この結果から考えるとやはり干渉している部分が何らかの影響を及ぼしていると思われます。

左側面の板も0.5mmほど変形していますが、これはメッシュをもっと細かく切ることで意思決定に問題のないレベルまで改善されると思います。

(解析に時間がかかりますので、今は実際に検証することは難しいです)

 

干渉ありの場合になぜおかしな結果が出るのかソフトウェア内部の構造に詳しくないので分からないのですが、モデリングレベルで干渉部を排除するということと、実際の構造に合わせて接触条件を設定するという運用で基本的な解析品質は確保できるんじゃないでしょうか。

Anonymous
適用対象外

何度もシミュレーションまで行っていただいてありがとうございます。

モデルで干渉部を除去するのと単純化で干渉部を除去するのと結果が違う可能性は考えていませんでした。

当面

 単純化で干渉部分の対応は行わなずモデルを修正する。

 リベットを使って接着を分離にするなら板金を重ねるときに隙間を開けない。

 

というやり方をとることにします。

 

いろいろほんとうにありがとうございました。

 

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We use LinkedIn to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by LinkedIn. Ads are based on both LinkedIn data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that LinkedIn has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to LinkedIn to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. LinkedIn Privacy Policy
Yahoo! Japan
We use Yahoo! Japan to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Yahoo! Japan. Ads are based on both Yahoo! Japan data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Yahoo! Japan has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Yahoo! Japan to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Yahoo! Japan Privacy Policy
Naver
We use Naver to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Naver. Ads are based on both Naver data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Naver has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Naver to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Naver Privacy Policy
Quantcast
We use Quantcast to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Quantcast. Ads are based on both Quantcast data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Quantcast has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Quantcast to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Quantcast Privacy Policy
Call Tracking
We use Call Tracking to provide customized phone numbers for our campaigns. This gives you faster access to our agents and helps us more accurately evaluate our performance. We may collect data about your behavior on our sites based on the phone number provided. Call Tracking Privacy Policy
Wunderkind
We use Wunderkind to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Wunderkind. Ads are based on both Wunderkind data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Wunderkind has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Wunderkind to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Wunderkind Privacy Policy
ADC Media
We use ADC Media to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by ADC Media. Ads are based on both ADC Media data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that ADC Media has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to ADC Media to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. ADC Media Privacy Policy
AgrantSEM
We use AgrantSEM to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by AgrantSEM. Ads are based on both AgrantSEM data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that AgrantSEM has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to AgrantSEM to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. AgrantSEM Privacy Policy
Bidtellect
We use Bidtellect to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Bidtellect. Ads are based on both Bidtellect data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Bidtellect has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Bidtellect to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Bidtellect Privacy Policy
Bing
We use Bing to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Bing. Ads are based on both Bing data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Bing has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Bing to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Bing Privacy Policy
G2Crowd
We use G2Crowd to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by G2Crowd. Ads are based on both G2Crowd data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that G2Crowd has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to G2Crowd to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. G2Crowd Privacy Policy
NMPI Display
We use NMPI Display to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by NMPI Display. Ads are based on both NMPI Display data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that NMPI Display has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to NMPI Display to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. NMPI Display Privacy Policy
VK
We use VK to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by VK. Ads are based on both VK data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that VK has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to VK to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. VK Privacy Policy
Adobe Target
We use Adobe Target to test new features on our sites and customize your experience of these features. To do this, we collect behavioral data while you’re on our sites. This data may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, your IP address or device ID, your Autodesk ID, and others. You may experience a different version of our sites based on feature testing, or view personalized content based on your visitor attributes. Adobe Target Privacy Policy
Google Analytics (Advertising)
We use Google Analytics (Advertising) to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Google Analytics (Advertising). Ads are based on both Google Analytics (Advertising) data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Google Analytics (Advertising) has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Google Analytics (Advertising) to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Google Analytics (Advertising) Privacy Policy
Trendkite
We use Trendkite to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Trendkite. Ads are based on both Trendkite data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Trendkite has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Trendkite to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Trendkite Privacy Policy
Hotjar
We use Hotjar to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Hotjar. Ads are based on both Hotjar data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Hotjar has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Hotjar to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Hotjar Privacy Policy
6 Sense
We use 6 Sense to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by 6 Sense. Ads are based on both 6 Sense data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that 6 Sense has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to 6 Sense to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. 6 Sense Privacy Policy
Terminus
We use Terminus to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Terminus. Ads are based on both Terminus data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Terminus has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Terminus to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Terminus Privacy Policy
StackAdapt
We use StackAdapt to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by StackAdapt. Ads are based on both StackAdapt data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that StackAdapt has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to StackAdapt to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. StackAdapt Privacy Policy
The Trade Desk
We use The Trade Desk to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by The Trade Desk. Ads are based on both The Trade Desk data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that The Trade Desk has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to The Trade Desk to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. The Trade Desk Privacy Policy
RollWorks
We use RollWorks to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by RollWorks. Ads are based on both RollWorks data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that RollWorks has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to RollWorks to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. RollWorks Privacy Policy

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