WIP Model (Work In Progress) - CAM issue

[Timon-]

Hi,

I'm struggling with finding the right workflow for our team. I've had a discussion on a different forum, and I would like to continue it on this forum. With the proposed workflow (see bottom of this post), we are having issues with select Stock body and select Model Body. 

Definition of the problem:

We produce various drivetrain related parts with a lot of different manufacturing processes. A Crown Wheel Pinion for example has 8 different production steps to be ready. Depending on design some of these manufacturing processes are outsourced.

 

1. Cutting raw material
2. Rough turning
3. Milling
4. Spline broaching
5. Gear hobbing
6. Heat treatment
7. Fine turning
8. Laser engraving

With the previous software we have used, we could create ‘configurations’ for each production step, and make a drawing for each which could be used for internal and external communication. At this point there is no nice way to do this in Fusion 360. With a lot of work arounds it is possible, but not a proper structured way.

The most straight forward solution right now would be to create ‘bookmarks’ on the Design history list.

	With a RMC on the design history bar you can add a ‘bookmarker’. You can start the design with a revolve of the start material, and start designing the product. Along the way you add bookmarkers to identify each production step.
	The bookmarkers will have different colors, and when you hover over it will show you the custom text.
	When you create a new drawing, you have the option to select your WIP model (for example ‘Rough Turning’).
	Also when you are in the properties of the model in the drawing environment, you are able to select the WIP model (for example Gear cutting). It will load the model at the ‘bookmark’ position.
	For each production step we will create a 2D drawing with the most important information (it will be used for internal production AND outsourcing).
	It should also be possible to select the stock model from the WIP Bookmark. If for example milling is outsourced, it should be possible to start the setup with the milled part. (Create drawings from WIP model have higher priority).

This should also work with imported models. You can start with an imported 'finished' part, and add material for manufacturing purposes. 

Another workflow was brought up by @TrippyLighting. See the screencast at: https://screencast.autodesk.com/Embed/Timeline/2f90ef3f-e989-46be-a945-f746c0748d3b

This workflow is working for making drawings etc., but not for creating CAM toolpaths. 

Using the stock material body from the previous model, will give invalid toolpaths.

For example, we have our rough turning model outsourced. We want to use this model as our stock model for the finish turning.

For model I select the body of Finish Turning, and the Stock Solid model I select the body of rough turning.
If I now create a toolpath, it will create the toolpath on the stock solid model which is positioned above, with wrong alignment.

We should be able to select a Stock solid model, and position this captured geometry on top of our model (WCS stock against WCS Model)
If we need to place each component on top of each other, it will create even more complexity, and it is not a nice workflow.

Any idea if it is possible right now to re-position the captured stock model geometry?

(Screencast attached to show stock material body issue, PDF of workflow attached for mobile users). 

Timon Alferink

K-M-P Motorsport Products

[Mike.Grau]

Hi @Timon-,

Thank you for asking about that and thanks for sharing this information with us.

Another option would be the approach to work with associated models by using Hyperlinks and

adding more features to the base component in every new component.

Through this way, you could create related drawings for every single production step and related Toolpaths to every single model.

Creating new features might take a bit more time since you would use combine couple times.

I hope this helps. Please, keep us updated if this could be a work around for now.

Thanks,

[ArjanDijk]

Hi Timon,

Have you tried copy-> paste a body? You can do a copy right after a revolve command, then you can use that body as stock and continue with adding holes and profiles.

[Timon-]

Thank you @ArjanDijk and @Mike.Grau for replying. 

Mike, this is the workaround we are currently using, but this is not really a solution for a proper work flow. It is to much hassle and complex to create only 1 single part with shop drawings.

If we only needed to design 1 part this way, it would work. But we need to find a proper workflow to make a wide range of parts. I now for sure more (metal) manufacturing shops are facing the same issue. 

Arjan, I'm not sure if I understood you right with copying body, but I've attached a screencast which shows that creating CAM Toolpaths in a WIP model is working now, but creating drawings isn't possible anymore. 

Additional information screencast:

Created 4 manufacturing steps (Cutting/Rough Turning/Gear Hobbing/Finish Turning)

First copy model body from previous step in new step. Re-position body. 

Copy new model body and rename to Stock. 

If I change dimensions in stock material, all next bodies are also converted. 

I can now select STOCK MODEL and it shows it correctly (See Simulate Finish turning)

If I re-position my component, and go back to CAM, I need to re-assign the stock model, because it is still referenced to the old position. 

Until here it is still workable, but if I want to create a shop drawing for Rough Turning, it will also select the stock body, and therefore I'm unable to create the drawing. 

I've also attached the Fusion file, in case someone would like to try to get this workflow going. 

[Mike.Grau]

Hi @Timon-,

Thank yo for sharing the screencast.

Yes, my suggestion would be just a work around. Currently, I can not really propose a better workflow for a WIP design in Fusion 360.

Let´s get Steven Shaw involved, he may has an idea what could be a better workflow in Fusion 360.

I will ping him directly.

Thanks, 

[TrippyLighting]

Timon first posted this on the Fusion 360's Advisor Forum and there was NO appreciable response from AD.

The workflow I posted and which @Timon- linked to in his original post is perfectly valid but its consequences not honored by the CAM side in Fusion.

Then I advised him to post it here and I find it really disturbing that there is still no response as to how to make that workflow work with the CAM side of things.

Maybe this YouTube profile od K.M.P Motorsports promoting Fusion 360 can provide some motivation ?

[Mike.Grau]

Hi @TrippyLighting,

Thank you for sharing this and thank you @Timon- for creating this amazing video.

This is really inspiring, I like it, since I started years ago in the FSAE team with MotorSport. 

I do absolutely agree with, the process how you manufacture your design is key factor and we do emphasize this.
Let´s get some more attention about it and we ( @al.whatmough & @Steven.Shaw ) stick our heads together today and

we will work out some idea´s.

We will keep you posted.

Thanks,

[Timon-]

Hi @Mike.Grau, 

Thanks for replying. I'm looking forward to a functional workflow (and I think a lot of other people as well). 

[HughesTooling]

Edit I think I see the problem, you don't want to leave all the components stacked on top of each other in the model workspace. All you could really do is make a copy of the previous stage component, and move with that stage. I left the screencast below as it might help someone.

I think I have a way to do this. First make a component, this will end up the finished part. Start by drawing the stock, then make a new component Stock and copy the body from the first component. Modify the first component to the next stage then make another new component and copy the body from the first component at stage1. Activate component1 again modify to the next stage copy body to another new component, keep repeating process until all ops are done.

You will end up with a component1 as the finished part and a component at each stage. Now you have components at each stage you can create drawings at each stage and every stage\component is fully parametric.

Here's a screencast, it's a bit slow I was making it up as I went along.

Mark

[Timon- · Accepted solution]

Hi @HughesTooling, @Mike.Grau and @TrippyLighting, 

I've got it more or less working now. It is a combined method from Peter and Mark. 

1. Create stock model
2. Ground stock model
3. Create new (empty) component and rename
4. Copy body from Stock model and past in new component
5. Create rigid joint between new body and stock body.
6. Redo steps for all processes.

- Use shift+N to check which feature belongs to which component.
- Adding new features, even when a component is active, will be placed at the end of the design history.
- Make sure you replace the new features to the right position, otherwise other bodies will not change.
- Ground the stock model and create rigid joints is very, very important. A slight (unwanted) offset in the stock body, will create an incorrect CAM Program.

- When creating assemblies, make sure the last saved version is with the finished product highlighted. When you open your assembly and all parts changed to 'stock' state, your assembly will look terrible 😉 

It is a workflow which is workable, but very fragile. You really need to pay attention to which feature and change is done when and belongs to what exactly. 

The 'bookmarkers' on the timeline would be a bit easier, but I understand it will not be easy to implement something like this. 

I would like to thank everybody who took their time to help me out for finding a workaround. 

See the screencast below for a working WIP

[Anonymous]

and why the screencast blocked? maybe not just me want to see solution?

[HughesTooling]

@Timon- Has deleted them. It's a shame when people do this on threads where they've come for help.

Mark

Edit Missed the message on the screencast, I see now they're private.

[Anonymous]

sadly, but happens, maybe there is a reason for that

[Timon-]

I'm not sure why it went on private, but I have set it to public again. 

[Anonymous]

cool method, working to obtain similiar results