suboptimal path engraving

[MarkusMohr5941]

Hi,

I'm engraving a path along a text. Instead of going from left to right the path jumps forth and back.

Is there a setting I have missed?

[LibertyMachine]

Not really many options to work with, really. So, no.

[MarkusMohr5941]

Hmm, then I would consider that as a bug. There should be a better sorting strategy than random.

[HughesTooling]

I seem to remember it works better if the text is aligned with the X axis, it looks like yours is along the Y. It can still get a bit hectic because the traveling salesman problem's not easy to solve.

Mark

[MarkusMohr5941]

The text is oriented that way because then it has the 'right' orientation from where I operate the machine. If X is the preferred direction then there should be a note somewhere.

The good salesman could take a hint from the fact that this path is derived from a left-to-right font. So beginning and end are fairly obvious.

[HughesTooling]

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@MarkusMohr5941 wrote:

The good salesman could take a hint from the fact that this path is derived from a left-to-right font. So beginning and end are fairly obvious.

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The trouble is what's left to right, computers are pretty stupid when it comes to this sort of thing. Also the engrave op is not just for text.

Mark

[etfrench]

What do you get if you break it into four operations?

[MarkusMohr5941]

The trouble is what's left to right, computers are pretty stupid when it comes to this sort of thing. Also the engrave op is not just for text.

Mark

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Since this is a text I've entered with Fusion it knows that it is a text and it goes from left to right. So not much to guess here. And of course is engraving text not the only thing you can engrave but I think it is one of the more common options you would engrave, don't you think?

[MarkusMohr5941]

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etfrench schrieb:

What do you get if you break it into four operations?

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You can only select the text as a whole unfortunately. Breaking it up into single words and then aligning everything is more work time-wise than to wait. 🙂

[Steinwerks]

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 Since this is a text I've entered with Fusion it knows that it is a text and it goes from left to right. So not much to guess here. And of course is engraving text not the only thing you can engrave but I think it is one of the more common options you would engrave, don't you think?

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Not in every language, to be fair.

But it is just sketch geometry to the CAM.

If you extrude-cut the text into a solid, does the linking result improve?

[MarkusMohr5941]

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Not in every language, to be fair.

But it is just sketch geometry to the CAM.

If you extrude-cut the text into a solid, does the linking result improve?

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To be nit-picky: if the language is written right-to-left then the OS and Fusion do/could know that, too. But Fusion doesn't take that into account that it is a text. Which I still think counts as bug. At least suboptimal behaviour.

It seems that there is a problem with extruding Zapfino (the font I used)

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/design-validate-document/extrude-text/td-p/6611331

I exploded the font and then extruded. But then engraving couldn't find a path.

So there is no solution for it and since I'm only making a few it is not a problem. Just wanted to point it out.

[daniel_lyall · Accepted solution]

The engrave operation is optermised for X +/- direction, (that was from development team member) in the Y +/- direction it is all over the show.

This happens in most engrave/V carve programs It's a hard one to get correct in any program, V carve pro still has not got it bang on and they have been trying for years.

[MarkusMohr5941]

You are quite right. I turned the drawing 90° and then the path is perfect.

I'll try to keep that in mind and orient the writing along the X-axis.

Thanks!

[aa7bq]

Optimizing for X is no solution at all, because, the program seems schizophrenic.  I'm engraving a wall plaque which has text that is horizontal and the program just acts like an idiot.  I have noticed that it usually want's to draw the letter O first, even if it has to jump around to do it.   I've even seen it draw the TOP HALF of the number 9, and then return several hundred operations later to finish the character.   Frankly, it's heartbreaking to see the cutter right next to a great opportunity, only to watch the machine rapid over to the other end of the table to dot an I.

Look below.   Where on earth does this toolpath make sense?   We're simply carving a bunch of text onto a grid.  Also, look at the number 9 - you can see that it is carved in two operations and yet other, more complex letters are done in one.

Note all of the long yellow Y-axis rapids.  Each one is a waste of time and energy.  

The algorithm should rasterize the job, that is, it should proceed from left to right, top to bottom, and then turn and proceed from top to bottom, left to right to pick up the vertical objects.  Trying to optimize this using traveling salesman logic is obviously not working well.

Just give us the "Preserve Order" option so that we can choose the order we want.   

[daniel_lyall]

It's going in the Y direction, They would have to add a selection box to the engrave op for it to cut in the Y or X so that it does a straight path add this to the idea station, They have stuff that is more important to fix .

And my reply was the solution because I said why.

Now flip your material around and cut in the X and see what happens

[aa7bq]

Wow Daniel, I didn't expect that sort of response.  Nevertheless, I turned the work in the CAM setup and this was the result:

It's hard to say if this path is any better.  Note the order:  first it does A, then O, then 6, and so on.  Not much logic in this, no matter how you say it.

I do appreciate your thoughts, however.

[daniel_lyall]

Are the letters there or are you picking the bottom faces It looks like it's cutting the inside and outside of the letters, If it is you have broken it.

With engrave you pick the sketched letter of the bottom face of the letter if it has been extruded.

Engrave/Vcarve is a Math monster for them to have both directions to cut in a straight line they would have to get someone in to do it with a Math background, I know someone who said no to adding it his program because it was just to hard.

It's not a easy thing at all.

A yes I am a bit short at the moment my wife is in hospital 

[aa7bq]

Thanks for that advice.  I've been choosing the contour of the top opening, not the bottom face as you suggested.  I guess I should have read the manual on Engrave.... oh wait, this forum is the manual...

Anyway, my entire progress slowed to a near halt because when re-selecting the dots and dashes for Engrave, each dot or dash would take about 10 seconds to register (highlight).   This made work impossible.   Then, I made a copy and set out to do a complete re-layout.  In doing so, I remembered that there is a specific bug with bodies that have a large number of extrusions in them.  In general, when there are a large number of extrusions, like holes, etc., in a body, any new operation causes the program to recalculate everything globally and performance goes right into the toilet.   So, I removed the extruded bodies (holes) from the body and setup the engrave from the sketch contours.   Amazingly, I got a fairly decent tool path:

Now this is very close to what I would expect for most engraving operations.  Its also the second time that I've had a major performance hit with multiple extruded features. 

I can only wonder what the experts think about a job such as this.  Should you extrude/inset engrave features into a body, or is it recommended NOT to extrude them and proceed directly to Engrave from the Sketch contours?  I think I've answered my own question but it sure seems like some guidance in the form of a manual page would have saved a lot of time.  

As an aside, I would say that the drawback of not engraving over an extruded model is that you lose some of the 3d preview in simulation mode.  Not such a bad tradeoff.

That said, I'm still a big F360 fan, and remain truly impressed with the product.

[Steinwerks]

You can still use the sketch for your geometry though with the extrusion present to compare against. Now that your sketch is selected, use it to make the extrude but leave your geometry selections intact. You will have to regenerate but it should remain the same. The extrude just hides the parent sketch once complete.

[etfrench]

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@aa7bq wrote:

Thanks for that advice.  I've been choosing the contour of the top opening, not the bottom face as you suggested.  I guess I should have read the manual on Engrave.... oh wait, this forum is the manual...

Anyway, my entire progress slowed to a near halt because when re-selecting the dots and dashes for Engrave, each dot or dash would take about 10 seconds to register (highlight).   This made work impossible.   Then, I made a copy and set out to do a complete re-layout.  In doing so, I remembered that there is a specific bug with bodies that have a large number of extrusions in them.  In general, when there are a large number of extrusions, like holes, etc., in a body, any new operation causes the program to recalculate everything globally and performance goes right into the toilet.  

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If you're using a sketch as the base for the engrave operation, then use 'Fix/Unfix' to lock the lines' position.  The solver will work much faster, but moving the lines will be more tedious.

p.s.

I think suboptimal is too generous of a description for the engrave toolpaths. Abysmal would be a better choice.