Moving all 5 axis simultaneous tool paths to the machining extension? Really?

[azdavidfarmer]

This is going to hurt a lot of hobby users, specifically people who have pocket nc machines, or small machines with 5 axis trunnions. at a minimum keep the 5 axis toolpaths that are available now included with the standard license. as mostly hobbyists we cant really justify an extra $1600 per year just for simultaneous tool paths.

[seth.madore]

We understand it's going to be a difficult change for a small section of users, we really do.

[engineguy]

@seth.madore 

Hmmm, understandable in some ways but if someone has paid for a subscription then should they not still have access to these toolpaths up to the end of their subscription ??

Not easy to do I know but to be removing things that many will consider have been paid for doesn`t sit well for sure 😞 😞

[seth.madore]

@engineguy it was not a decision that was arrived at lightly, that's for sure. We know there will be some users who are greatly effected by this. Unfortunately, it was a decision that needed to be made..

[engineguy]

@seth.madore 

Yes, agreed, as I said, understandable, but if for example a user has recently purchased say a 3 year subscription then those folks will be deeply "out of pocket".

IMHO this will affect mainly the many thousands of smaller businesses that may only use this capability less often than a big shop and can`t justify the cost of the full "Extension" which the larger shops will already have anyway so will not be affected.

Would not surprise me if many jump ship because if they have to pay the cost of the Fusion 360 to do what they need to do then they might as well go to a much more mature software that won`t be much different in price now and doesn`t have the many "bugs" that Fusion has.

To be fair the "Community" does get the vast majority of folks going with issues and it has been for a long time been relying on Members for help, now there are more Autodesk Employees answering issues but still lagging behind a little 🙂 🙂 🙂

Doesn`t really affect me as I do have other software that is used for machining but it does mean that I will not be able to help anyone with issues that involve these toolpaths, as has happened with the Rotary.

(I get that as Standard with my other software 4axis )  🙂 🙂 🙂

I only do this on Fusion 360 as a "helping hand" 🙂 🙂 🙂

Still, it is a shame that Autodesk have decided to go that route again, as small shops grow and can afford software that will do what they need then they will be in a much better position to purchase much more "Mature" software.

Would seem to me to be more of a "short term thinking" decision as long term more users could be lost !! 😞 😞

[hyperbolicindustries]

Was there some change or announcement that I missed?

[seth.madore]

@hyperbolicindustries 

Yesterday, an email went out to select customers who have used 5 axis toolpaths. You can read the context of these changes here:
https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/fusion-360/learn-explore/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/Updat...

There is a "fireside chat" planned, you can find the link to that in the link above.

[engineguy]

@seth.madore 

@hyperbolicindustries 

Don`t know about anyone else but I got a "Notification" in Fusion when I launched the software as well as the email 🙂 🙂

[smcdonald_76]

Exactly this.  This is yet another absolute anti-consumer decision by Autodesk.  To not even grandfather in people who are already under contract.  This just shows how horrible the subscription based model is for the consumer and is a blatant F-you in a long pattern of decisions that illustrate exactly how much Autodesk does not care about the people who use their products. Of course Autodesk would be the first service I use to REMOVE features and put them behind a paywall that increases the annual cost by 400%.   

[DarthBane55]

I have to say 1st that this affects me zero as far as programming goes, because we use Inventor CAM mainly.  However, it affects me a lot in the sense that I cannot trust Autodesk at all (also zero) anymore.  I am 100% with @engineguy on this one.  This cannot be done mid-cycle to people who have already paid for 1 or 3 years.  When you subscribe for 1 to 3 years, you at least expect to keep the functionality that you paid for at the time you did, for the duration of this subscription.  Removing functionality has to happen at the end of the subscription, not in the middle (it should never happen, but if it has to, it needs to be at the end).

If you lease a car with a 5.0L engine, would you let the car manufacturer telling you mid-term that they need to replace your engine with a 2.5L engine?  That wouldn't fly.

A refund must be granted to people requesting it, because the product is not what they subscribed to.  It's just logical.  That is the minimum that Autodesk should be ready to do, when removing functions that were paid for.  It's a breach of contract pretty much.  Maybe the will, maybe they won't, but they could face some class action on this.

It is simple really bad practice here, and a total lack of respect for customers who already paid for current functionality.  Why stay with a company that does not respect you? 

Anyways, I'll think about it myself.

[seth.madore]

@DarthBane55 @smcdonald_76 @engineguy @azdavidfarmer 

Don't jump to too many conclusions about what's going away in regards to those who have renewed or purchased multi-year licenses. I'm checking with the team about what can and cannot be stated right now (there are legal limitations on what can be said, as anything that has a financial impact (positive or negative) has to be vetted first)

[hyperbolicindustries]

Like @engineguy I mainly help out and problem solve as I dont have access to a CNC machine and my subscription is expired until I need Fusion on the design side again (shortly) so probably does not effect me but once again it seems like Autodesk finds the dumbest thing possible and is like "lets do that". 

I also have to image that this was not run past legal? In most jurisdictions (like Australia) if you bought or licensed this product with X features for a certain amount of time and then it gets changed after the fact you will often be able to get all of you moneyback. That may not be the case here in America but might fall under just some good old fashioned fraud.  

[azdavidfarmer]

This isnt the first time this has happened either, when the free version of fusion had many features taken away, 5 axis and tool changing were part of it. many pocket nc were using the free version of the software, and all were forced to switch to a subscription, which is fair as at least something should be paid for the software. Now a year later, that same feature is being put behind another significantly more expensive paywall. what will happen one year from now?

[DarthBane55]

@seth.madore please do not take offense personally, it is purely against the decision choice that I wrote.

It is hard not to jump to conclusion when the email says: "Effective March 29, 2022, all Fusion 360 subscribers..." etc.  This is referring to some new functionality, but then the next paragraph says: "At the same time, more advanced and specialized 4-and 5-axis simultaneous capabilities will only be available with a subscription to the Machining Extension."  

So "At the same time" implies March 29.  Thus the jump to conclusions on my side.

I will keep an eye on your updates in this thread with interest, and hope that the email was just written with a honest mistake.

[smcdonald_76]

Hmmm.  I'm only drawing the conclusion of what was stated directly to me via email which doesn't insinuate anything about users under contract. 

"At the same time, more advanced and specialized 4-and 5-axis simultaneous capabilities will only be available with a subscription to the Machining Extension. These capabilities include swarf machining, multi-axis contour, multi-axis tilting (for 3D contour), and multi-axis flow functionality.

If there are going to be exceptions for contracted users it would be a huge oversight to not include it.  Nonetheless removing functionality of ANY service is a fundamentaly wrong business practice that serves no purpose but to keep increasing bottom lines even if the decision only affects a small portion of the user base.  The implications don't look good for ANY of the user base if these are the kind of decisions being made.  This on the heels of forcing customers into a subscription model that a large portion of the user base does not want.  

[seth.madore]

@DarthBane55 no offense taken, I'm on the end of this and only dealing with partial information...

[Lonnie.Cady]

@seth.madore 

How did they know who used 5 axis toolpaths and who did not?

I thought I read that the info was collected anonymously, Is that not the case??

[smcdonald_76]

They don't know.  But they are moving the features behind a paywall in the form of a software plug-in.  So no one will have access to those features without paying.  Doesn't affect you unless you actually need them.  Truthfully I doubt many people use any of the other bloat that they will attach to the plug in to try and justify this horrible move.  

[Lonnie.Cady]

They do know.  @seth.madore said that it only went out to select users that have used them.

It won't affect me at all.  I still don't think that it is right morally.  I am sure they covered the bases legally.

Commercial users just need to log in each morning to see what toolpaths they will currently have and what they can work on for the day. 

Fusion -> Fusion Standard/Fusion Ultimate -> Combine them -> Cloud Credits -> Extensions ->Flex Tokens 

Getting a little bit old.  

[seth.madore]

It's my understanding that the email was targeted to commercial users who:

A) Do not have the Manufacturing Extension (which explains why I did not receive an email)

B) Have interacted with any of the effected areas.

This information is gained through the built in analytics of Fusion, which one can opt out of if one desires.