Fixturing Best Practice/Ideas

[mattdlr89]

Bit of a long post, so the short if it is: what's your best practice for using fixtures with your models, particularly vises etc that you reuse between files. 

I wanted to start a discussion to get some ideas on how people use fixtures in Fusion. I started using Fusion in July I feel I've got to grips with it now but there are still some areas of my workflow that aren't smooth or don't feel that smart. Fixturing is one of them. I'll give a run down of what I'm doing currently...

It might be worth pointing out here that all our models are made in Solidworks for what we machine and I import solidwork files into Fusion for the CAM side. I have been using the design space as the "manufacturing model". Most of our fixtures are not modelled so I have been modelling them in Fusion as I go along as this seemed the simplest way to do it. 

My workflow as it stands is I've created some fixture models and I've used parameters so that I can change spacing etc. These have been made in a discrete Fusion file that I then insert into my manufacturing file. I use the "insert derive" feature and then I've used joints to get it to where it should be.

This seems to be ok but the parameters can't be edited within the manufacturing file, I thought by breaking link I'd be able to edit these but it then appears to be a dumb model (perhaps I'm doing it wrong?).

The things I don't like about this is that as above is I can't work out how you change the parameters in the manufacturing file. Yes I can go back to the original/master and change it but that also brings a problem where by different manufacturing jobs will require different spacing etc and the master file can only reflect one spacing obviously. 

What do others do? I had been thinking about this for the past few days and also noticed it mentioned today in this thread https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/fusion-360-manufacture/title-are-manufacturing-models-created-from-ed... by @DarthBane55  and @ltomuta 

As I'm only at the start of creating more fixtures etc I'd like to try to get it "right" from the beginning. My other concern is that I have seen talk that machine simulation will be coming to Fusion at some point in the future (hopefully soon) and will this change how we make and input fixtures into a model. Perhaps someone from Autodesk ( @seth.madore  ?) might be able to shed light on this. I don't want to spend time now creating fixturing by one method just to find in a few months there's a new way to do it with machine simulation or some other feature. 

[DarthBane55]

I can say what I do, but I'd like others to chime in, because I mainly use Inventor HSM.  I do use Fusion though, but don't take the following for absolute best practice, it's just how I do it (in Fusion) and it works for me.

As you said, you can't edit your parameters in each of the files you will create from your original "template", because the parameters are controlled within that original file, and would change all of your CAM files if you moved something in that original file.  I also can say that I did use "derived" models at one point, but stopped when manufacturing models were introduced.  Note that you can still edit the model within the context of the assembly without affecting the original model (for example, if you add a fillet or a chamfer, in your CAM assembly file, these will not go back to the actual model, so this is very handy for manufacturing).

An example with a simple vise "template":

-I either copy my template containing the vise to a new design, or insert it in a new design.  If I insert it, I then break the link, because otherwise you can't move the jaws independently from the template.  The only inconvenient I can see doing this, is that if your vise gets modified down the road, these previously made CAM files won't have the changes in them.  However, since it worked fine at day 1, I would assume the changes you'd make to the vise wouldn't be a deal breaker in those previously made files.  If the changes were so important that you need to regen the toolpaths, you can always bring in the modified vise in that file anyways.

-Then I insert the part to be machined (and the stock if modeled), and position them on the vise.

-Create manufacturing model, selecting only the stuff I need for manufacturing.

-Create the setup, and away I go with programming.

That's how I do it currently, but wait to see what others do, and pick what makes most sense for you.

I can't see machine simulation breaking any of the fixtures you are creating now, I don't know why it would break that, but since you asked Seth, let's hear him out, for sure he has a better insight than me.

[mattdlr89]

Great, thanks of the reply @DarthBane55 .

Do you put all your fixtures and stock etc into the manufacturing model then? I guess I never really looked at it closely I assumed it was more for making changes to the model rather than adding additional models. I've just had a look at the feature briefly - o you set up a different manufacturing model for each set up then? That seems quite a logical way to order the models/manufacturing setups. 

I also can't work out if I insert derive a model in I am unable to edit any of the sketches that came with it, even if I have broken the link. I would expect when you break the link for all sketches to then be editable. I can't seem to get this to work (perhaps I'm missing something). 

As for machine simulation breaking fixtures, that's not really what I think would happen it was more that perhaps there will be different workflow for managing them etc. which might change how I start doing setting up my fixtures now. 

[ltomuta]

On my side, we use fixtures mainly for our 5-axes work. It is a must!

We have parametric "template" projects create using the vise models downloaded from the manufacturer and ready configured with stock and part placeholders and even a template CAM setup.

We copy those to where the part is, rename it as the part and then insert the part design in them. A bit of moving, rotating and jointing and we're ready to go.

For 3-axes work we can mostly do it without. In some cases, if I'm not sure about how close the tool gets to the jaws, I quickly sketch and extrude a couple of "jaws" around the piece. It takes a minute and helps a lot.

Lately I've also made a parametric template with these basic "jaws" but since it is so light I insert it into the piece's design rather than the other way around. Breaking the link gives me parameter control and it just works. But as said, sometimes it is faster to just sketch them.

[DarthBane55]

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@mattdlr89 wrote:

Great, thanks of the reply @DarthBane55 .

Do you put all your fixtures and stock etc into the manufacturing model then? I guess I never really looked at it closely I assumed it was more for making changes to the model rather than adding additional models. I've just had a look at the feature briefly - o you set up a different manufacturing model for each set up then? That seems quite a logical way to order the models/manufacturing setups. 

Yes and no...  you can't insert anything in the manufacturing model.  So the way it works, is that you need to place all the stuff you need in the design mode (in my case, the fixtures are all there already, I simply add my part and the stock).  When you create the manufacturing model, everything that you have in the design space will go to the manufacturing model automatically.  You then can delete stuff you dont need to your setup, you can cut jaws, you can modify ANYTHING on the manufacturing model, without affecting the actual models that are in the design space.  This renders derived parts useless (for manufacturing), because this is simpler and made exactly for manufacturing.

Yes, I make 1 manufacturing model for each setup, and this is really handy, because when you activate one manufacturing model, it shows that setup, and when you activate the other manufacturing model, it shows that setup.  That, together with the "continue rest machining from the previous setup", is an incredible time saver.  

The only thing, for the 2nd setup, then I insert my template into that CAM file and position it in relation to the part, instead of the other way around, because the part is already positioned in the 1st setup.  You don't want to bring another part in and set it up beside the 1st one (which is what I was doing prior to "continue stock from previous setup).  So I changed my workflow a bit to make full use of this new function, and it saves me a lot of time.

To sum it up:

op1: copy template, insert part and stock in it, create manuf model, cut jaws, mod part, etc.

op2: bring the template or fixtures needed for op2, and position in relation to current op1 part.  Create a new manufacturing model.  This takes advantage of "continue stock from previous setup", and makes switching from op1 to op2 setups a breeze with manuf model.

So I sort of answered about the derived parts above (obsolete for manufacturing - at least for me).

For the fixture and machine sim, I really can't answer if we will need a new workflow, who knows what that will look like really...  I wouldn't wait for that feature to get setup, worst case is that we'll have to move a few things around in the templates.  Right now, this workflow helps me, and I can adjust it anytime for any new function they add, like I did when they added "continue stock from previous setup".

Hope it helps again!  Also read what @ltomuta wrote, he has a different workflow which might be simpler than mine.  I just like to have all my fixtures, vises and jaws (jaws needed anyways cause need to program them with the shape of the part), makes the setup sheet really clear for the machinists.  Of course, if you program and make the parts too, you probably don't need that, might be overkill.  We have dedicated programmers, and we make the setup sheets (not the built-in ones from Fusion) so that any machinist can setup the job, with the goal that they wouldn't have any questions for the programmer (if they do that is entirely ok, but the goal is to make it as clear as we can, in case we are not there to answer questions, or that 3 years later the job comes back, we still can do it easily and quickly).

[ltomuta]

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(jaws needed anyways cause need to program them with the shape of the part),

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I didn't include above the soft jaws scenario. Those are part specific, extrude cut from it, so they usually are created in place anyhow and not templated/reused much. But definitely one type of fixture to consider overall.

[DarthBane55]

Yes, you can do that.  I'm just saying what I do, the jaws are already on the vise in my case, in my template, so I don't even have to extrude them, they are there ready to be cut.  Like I said to @mattdlr89 , he should look at what you do, it is simpler I know it.  For us, since we want vises and everything, we include the jaws.