CAM - Strategies for multi tool setup's

[ianpmitchell]

Hi, I have a hobbyist licence for Fusion 360. Today, for the first time since the recent changes I have come to generate code for my CNC mill. When I read the changes, I saw that the Hobbyist licence didn't support auto tool changers, fine I thought, I don't have a tool changer. What I didn't realise until today was that it also restricted the number of tools per set-up to one.

Am I right in assuming that with every tool change I now also must load a new programme into my controller?

Having to load 5-7 programmes to produce one part is a recipe for me crashing the machine by getting a step wrong i.e. loading the wrong programme. 

I have read somewhere that I could copy and paste each of the programmes into one programme and insert some lines of G-code between each set of code. Trouble is I have no idea what that code might be.

Any other strategies for creating multi tool set-ups?

[daniel_lyall]

Duplicate the setup then set the toolpath and don't touch the setups that are duplicated after you have done them.

[ianpmitchell]

Hi Daniel,

I think what you are suggesting is what I have already done, I have created a setup for each tool so that I have say 5 NC programmes to complete one part. In this case I now have 5 programmes numbered 1001a, 1001b, 1001c, 1001d and 1001e.

When I go to my machine I load 1001a into Mach3 put in the correct tool and run the programme. At the end of the programme I change the tool and load a new programme into Mach 3, 1001b, and run the programme. I continue to change tools and load programmes until the part is finished. Some of the operations might be something like spotting a few holes and take 10 seconds to run. I spend more time loading the programme than it takes to run it.

What I was looking for is a solution where I do not have to load 5 programmes into Mach3 with all the possibilities this gives for making a mistake.

If your solution is something different to the above workflow can you expand on what you are suggesting?

[daniel_lyall]

The only thing you can do is combine the tool paths and hope you got it correct or spend $500 

[engineguy]

@daniel_lyall 

@ianpmitchell 

Hmmm, interesting, I thought you were able to have multiple Setups that will Post out as a single Program, is this not the case ??

As far as I know you can have as many Operations in a single Setup as you like, as long as they all use the same tool, and by "same tool" I mean that you select the Tool from your Tool Library for the first Operation and then for the second operation you select the Tool from within your Document, not your Tool Library, do that and Fusion will see that as a new diferent tool and won`t work, so once you have a tool in your Document select it from there for every new Operation you want to use it in.

Now, Setups, again as far as I know you can have as many Setups as you like within your Main Program and be able to Post code for all Setups in one go, again, just guessing but if you can do that then you would not select each Setup one at a time and Post code for that Setup, right at the top of all the Setups there is the main "Setups" where you can Post all setups from.

This would mean that you would load the whole code for the complete job into your Mach3 and just make sure that you have the "Optional Stop" enabled so that when the first Setup/Operation is complete the machine will stop so you can change to tool, then you only need to press Start again and off you go with the next Setup/Operation so you don`t have to re-load a program every time.

Could be totally wrong, I am just guessing as I don`t have the Personal Use version but I would have thought the above would be possible ?????

Does this work for anyone ????? 🙂 🙂 🙂

Stay Safe

Regards

Rob

[ianpmitchell]

Rob,

You are a life saver. I had just started investigating other CAM software because I couldn't bear the thought of loading 5 or 6 programmes to machine one part. I have generated the code in Fusion and all the set-ups look as if they are there. I now need to test it on the machine, but I feel confident it will work.

So, my workflow is now: -

Create a setup

Duplicate that setup several times equal to the number of tools I am going to use.

Create operations for a single tool within a set-up

Repeat for each tool.

Select the very top level "Setups"

Post Process with "Optional Stop" set to "Yes"

Once again a very big thank Rob

[engineguy]

@ianpmitchell 

Hopefully that will work OK at the machine, you may either have to make a couple of small mods to your PP for moving the machine to a safe tool changing position or possibly make use of the "Manual NC" facility if that is still working 🙂

If it works straight off then even with the lack of Rapid moves it might make life a little easier :0

Stay Safe

Regards

Rob

[ianpmitchell]

I spoke too soon...

There is something very odd going on.

The following screenshot shows a model that produces a single NC file with all the setups when I post process the top level "Setups"

 

This screenshot is an attempt at CAM'ing another component. This one doesn't work. I get the error that says only one Tool per NC.

 

The only difference I can see is that the first file has Multiple WCS, I am making 4 parts at once.

[engineguy]

@ianpmitchell 

Without seeing any files all I can see from the images is that on the second image you don`t have the first Setup set to "Active", whether that would make any difference is unlikely but that`s all I can see without any files 🙂

Stay Safe

Regards

Rob

[ianpmitchell]

@engineguy 

I have attached the two files. Maybe you can see a difference. I tried activating the first setup but as you suspected it didn't make a difference.

[engineguy]

@ianpmitchell 

Looked at your files, the only thing I could find that might be the issue is that in "Rear Carriage Wheel" file Setups #2 and #3 both have a 3mm diameter tool in the operations, although one is a Drill and the other is a Flat EM Fusion may be "seeing" the diameters, if that`s the case then maybe calling the Drill a 2.99mm diameter in Fusion and actually putting a 3mm one in the machine might work, shouldn`t make any difference to actually drilling the hole 🙂 🙂 🙂

Stay Safe

Regards

Rob

[ianpmitchell]

@engineguy 

I afraid that changing the drill to 2.99mm didn't make any difference.

So I tried a test and changed the setups on the Rear Wheel to have Multiple WCS Offsets and the post generated correctly.

It seems there is a bug that bypasses the block on Hobbyist using multiple tools in a single post. Just have Multiple WCS offsets for each part and the post works. I am sure Autodesk will fix that pretty quickly.

It looks as if the recent changes for Hobbyist has made it impossible for me, personally, to use Fusion 360 for CAM, the chances of me crashing the machine by making a mistake when loading programme are too high.

For example I want to make four of the Eccentric Keep Plates above. In the past I would have loaded one programme with 4 operations, which may have been 4 different tools. I would have just run the same programme 4 times. Now with Fusion, I have to load 16 programmes to create the four parts.

Time to continue my search for a new CAM programme unless someone has other suggestions.

[daniel_lyall]

@engineguy you should get yourself a hobby licenses you just need an email address for it what is not the same as the one you use now. 

@ianpmitchell Doing the toolpaths for the wheel the same way you did the plate it works, it may or may not be a bug.

[seth.madore]

No, you don't need to load 16 programs. Create all your toolpaths. Post out code for one toolpath, call it 1001. Post out code for 2nd toolpath, call it 1002. Repeat for all toolpaths.

Open them up side by side, copy what's in 1002 onto the end of 1001. Repeat for 1003, copy that to the end of 1001 (after the new stuff from 1002) Repeat.

BTW, I'm on my sons Hobby account and I can't seem to reproduce the workaround...

[ianpmitchell]

@seth.madore 

Seth Thanks for the reply. 

I understand what you are proposing and would be quite happy to use this work around in the future but I know nothing of G-code and I read somewhere that when combining G-codes files in this manner there may need to be a need to add a section of manual code between each of the files. From what you are suggesting this is not the case. Can you confirm that?

As you can imagine I am worried that I will crash my machine if I miss something out.

If you download the "Eccentric Keep Plate" file that I attached to an earlier post and try Posting that by clicking "Setups" at the top level, then "generate" it works for me. Each of the setups under the main heading have 4 WCS offsets. I added 2 WCS offsets to all of the setups in the "Rear Wheel" file as well and that created a post as well. By the way I started the offsets at 1 because starting at 0 casues two G54's.

[engineguy]

@ianpmitchell 

Ouch, not best, you don`t want to be doing multiple operations using multiple WCS if just doing a single part 😞

However can you assign each Setup with a single specific WCS so they are all different?

If that will also allow the generating of code in one go then you could actually (Unless they have to be set in "Tablets of Stone" ) in your Mach3 set them all the same so even though each setup would have a different G54/G55/G56 etc they would all call up the same correct offset for the program 🙂

Any chance this might work ?? Something else to try

@daniel_lyall 

Don`t want to risk messing up what I have now but I may end up on it anyway as my Fusion is currently showing an "Expiring in -1 days", note the - (Minus) in there, no idea how long that will last before it does one of it`s "Force to Online" moves 🙂 🙂 🙂

@seth.madore 

I see what you are saying there, should work OK althoug a bit of a pain 😞 😞

Stay Safe

Regards

Rob

[Laurens-3DTechDraw]

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@seth.madore wrote:

Open them up side by side, copy what's in 1002 onto the end of 1001. Repeat for 1003, copy that to the end of 1001 (after the new stuff from 1002) Repeat.

Could also make a main program that calls those numbers as subprograms.

Especially if you make this with variables that you can input the number of files it needs to load.

[engineguy]

@Laurens-3DTechDraw 

@seth.madore 

Just a thought, would you not need to remove all the M30 commands at the end of each individual setup code??

Would it not just go back to the start when the control sees the M30 "Back to beginning" command ??

Stay Safe

Regards

Rob

[Laurens-3DTechDraw]

Depending on the control if you call subprograms it would be fine with M30 or need that replaced by M99. But that is an insanely easy post edit.

[engineguy]

@Laurens-3DTechDraw 

With respect, to yourself and @seth.madore  and to a degree myself editing any G code is second nature but the OP apears to have been reading all the really bad stuff regarding editing/copying/pasting of code and says he is not comfortable with doing it so until the OP gets some practice and is more comfortable in that area I will continue to try any other options that I can.

Re the control, yes there are some controls that allow a setting that does not use the M30 command but the OP is using Mach3 and I don`t see anywhere in that control software an option to "ignore" the M30 so it would have to be a "Find all" and "Delete" in Visual Studio or another Text editor such as Notepad etc, etc.

Stay Safe

Regards

Rob