Workflow for creating packages in f360 Electronics

[mrm1018]

What is the workflow for creating a complete package from scratch, including the 3D model?

What is the workflow for modifying/customizing a complete package that has been generated, including the 3D model?

[TrippyLighting]

Excellent question, but wrong forum board 😉

@Discussion_Admin can this be moved over to the Fusion 360 Electronics board please ?

[engineeringNCMXB · Accepted solution]

I just started looking at the Fusion360 electronics environment. I am a professional mixed discipline engineer that has been using F360 for about 2 years and Eagle for about 6 years.

The workflow when Eagle / F360 were separate was convoluted and quirky if I am being very generous. It did/does work once you memorize the non-intuitive way to do it. With that said, I am hoping/dreaming that the move to F360 will streamline the workflow. Change is expected, so learning the old way may not benefit you.

As a general overview.....
1. Create a SYMBOL for use in schematic. You can create from scratch of copy/modify an existing one.
2. Create a FOOTPRINT for use in the PCB layout. You can create from scratch of copy/modify an existing one. 

3. Create a DEVICE which marries the SYMBOL and FOOTPRINT into a package that has all the pins defined.
4. Attach a 3D package to the DEVICE. This part is bizarre. You create or download a STEP file and marry that to the rendered FOOTPRINT. It is not hard, just not obvious.

I create all of my parts this way and have spent considerable time learning how to organize the libraries and what custom attributes to use. The Library is THE FOUNDATION OF ELECTRONICS DESIGN. If you bumble through the library, it will almost always bite you. For those that make a couple of very simple PCB's as a hobby it may not matter but for anything approaching serious work - the library is a something to be best friends with.

[TrippyLighting]

The old way is still in place as it pertains to creating parts for the library. But, they've just started!

You can, however, already create a board outline using the normal sketch tools in Fusion 360. Associative dimensioning, constraints, etc. What a welcome departure form the archaic, grid based tools in most other PCB tools.

[engineeringNCMXB]

@TrippyLighting  Yes!
My workflow has been to create the PCB outline in F360 with normal sketch tools and then push to Eagle. It just got simpler to do.

I am anxiously waiting to see the implementation of the library system and part creation. Historically, that has been a major sore spot in Eagle. I have spent some time now playing with the current implementation and it is barely an alpha release.

Not sure why this is not released as a preview. It is fun to play around and see where things are headed - but it is not ready for prime time in any sense. Either way, I am thankful to see some commitment to EDA and the Eagle core will get an all new life.

Kinda wish there was some estimate on when Autodesk will flip the switch on standalone Eagle. I have to admit, I am scared they will push the issue before the F360 is safe for professionals that count on it.

[TrippyLighting]

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@engineeringNCMXB wrote:

Kinda wish there was some estimate on when Autodesk will flip the switch on standalone Eagle. I have to admit, I am scared they will push the issue before the F360 is safe for professionals that count on it.

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I hope that never happens!

I would firmly believe that there are many professional users out there, probably the majority, whom are perfectly happy using Eagle without the ballast of a connected mechanical CAD system.

[Anonymous]

Hi

You say "You can create (a footprint) from scratch of copy/modify an existing one".

Could you explain how to copy a footprint from another library, please?

I used to do that in Eagle 7 but I haven't found the option in F360 yet.

Thank you

[engineeringNCMXB]

It is essentially the same process in Fusion as it has been in Eagle for some time - although it looks much different.

You find a symbol in the content manager that is similar to what you want - right click - select duplicate - make a new name for it. Edit the new part however you please.

[Anonymous]

Hi @engineeringNCMXB 

Thanks for your answer

But it duplicates the symbol in the same library, isn't it? I would want to copy footprints/symbols/devices to another library.

I would like to copy footprints from library ref-packages-3d.lbr to my custom library.

Best regards

[engineeringNCMXB]

That is a good question.....
In classic Eagle - I used the 'Table of Contents' interface to to copy elements to other libraries. That interface does not exist in Fusion360, so I do not know how to accomplish the same goal.

After spending some hours plucking around the Fusion 360 electronics space - it is clear the library management system is very different and perhaps even worse than the convoluted Eagle system. I painfully memorized all the non-intuitive tips and tricks in Eagle as a matter of survival - but F360 Eagle is not currently survivable for me.

The 'Copy to another library' functionality may or may not exist in Fusion. If it does - it needs to be 100x more obvious. I imagine a system where I can drag-n-drop library elements to/from any library in a similar manner as I drag/copy/move files around in windows/mac/GUI-linux.

[TrippyLighting]

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@engineeringNCMXB wrote:

After spending some hours plucking around the Fusion 360 electronics space - it is clear the library management system is very different and perhaps even worse than the convoluted Eagle system. I painfully memorized all the non-intuitive tips and tricks in Eagle as a matter of survival - but F360 Eagle is not currently survivable for me.

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That is truly disappointing, to be honest. I had hoped that this would be me and that I would just have to work more with Eagle to get comfortable with it. Hearing this come from an experienced professional is pretty sobering!

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@engineeringNCMXB wrote:

I imagine a system where I can drag-n-drop library elements to/from any library in a similar manner as I drag/copy/move files around in windows/mac/GUI-linux.

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Well ... on the Windows version you can drag-&-drop a file from the data panel into the viewport to open it.

The funny/disturbing thing is that on the one platform  - macOS - where you usually an drag-&-drop everything ( and it works like magic) in Fusion 360 that does not work 😉

So I am not overly hopeful that is functionality will be implemented.

[engineeringNCMXB]

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@TrippyLighting wrote:

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Well ... on the Windows version you can drag-&-drop a file from the data panel into the viewport to open it.

The funny/disturbing thing is that on the one platform  - macOS - where you usually an drag-&-drop everything ( and it works like magic) in Fusion 360 that does not work 😉

So I am not overly hopeful that is functionality will be implemented.

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I was referring to library elements like SYMBOLS, FOOTPRINTS, and PACKAGES, not data files.

For example - if I want to create a new library made partly from existing parts or elements of parts - I would drag a footprint from one library to the other as either a copy or a move. This would require two separate libraries to be opened at the same time (which was never possible in Eagle).

Other nice things would be the option of having linked parts. This would allow a MASTER library to feed linked libraries that are used for specific projects. When the MASTER library is edited, it would update the linked parts that are children of the MASTER library. As things are today, if I want to make custom libraries for a project it requires isolated copied parts. If I make an adjustment to the parts (adding part numbers, vendor data, pad adjustments, etc) I have to manually find and update any parts that use copies of the parts.

Because of that, I have simply standardized on one MASTER set of libraries that all projects use.

[jorge_garcia]

Hi @engineeringNCMXB,

Linked libraries is a recipe for disaster. You do not want production boards getting automatically updated, that's why the update process is so explicit. Imagine you are at a company and a engineer modifies a library and unknowingly introduces an error into the master library(We're human it happens) and now all designs that use that library automatically get updated with that error. Boom!

At first blush it sounds like a reasonable idea but it has a very large potential for disaster which is why no ECAD tool does that (at least that I'm aware of). Standardizing on one master library or having redundant copies of components in libraries coupled with an explicit update is the safer way.

There's still work to be done to get that library editor where we want it to be. Your feedback will help to shape this.

Best Regards,

[engineeringNCMXB]

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@jorge_garcia wrote:
There's still work to be done to get that library editor where we want it to be. Your feedback will help to shape this.

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I am highly motivated to offer constructive criticism.

On the concept of linked libraries, I only see it as a managed option. This is similar to how I work with Fusion360 and for decades prior - Solidworks.

Almost everything in the MCAD design package is linked up to the point where the product goes into production. At that point, the links are broken and the design data is isolated as a snapshot of that moment in time. For the first few revisions - we can fork at the linked project or choose to fork the un-linked project. Either way, you can isolate the issue of having a master library mistake spoil your production projects. In MCAD, this workflow concept is decades old and I did not invent it.

It is at least worth a discussion to look beyond a simple forced link scheme.

[TrippyLighting]

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@jorge_garcia wrote:

There's still work to be done to get that library editor where we want it to be. Your feedback will help to shape this.

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If that's the case the I don't understand why your are shutting the conversation down with blanket statements. "... is a recipe for disaster"

IME the disaster usually more often than not sits in front of the keyboard and due to lack of knowledge and experience makes bad choices. That should not be taken as an indication to limit functionality to consumer level and inhibit experienced users to work professionally.

[kb9ydn]

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@jorge_garcia wrote:
Hi @engineeringNCMXB,

Linked libraries is a recipe for disaster. You do not want production boards getting automatically updated, that's why the update process is so explicit. Imagine you are at a company and a engineer modifies a library and unknowingly introduces an error into the master library(We're human it happens) and now all designs that
use that library automatically get updated with that error. Boom!

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So the problem isn't specifically that the libraries are linked, it's that child libraries would be updated from the master "automatically".  That makes sense, so just take out the automatic part and require some additional action to update each child library.

And even if mistakes are made, that's what we have version control for.

C|

[engineeringNCMXB]

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@kb9ydn wrote:

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So the problem isn't specifically that the libraries are linked, it's that child libraries would be updated from the master "automatically".  That makes sense, so just take out the automatic part and require some additional action to update each child library.

And even if mistakes are made, that's what we have version control for.

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Something like that.
I am the type of person that does not dwell on the assessments of the past. I push hard 24/7 and regularly accomplish things that someone told me was impossible, a bad idea, etc, etc.....

All of my accomplishments are the result of aggressively re-evaluating past limitations that are both real and perceived looking for something new. I am hoping that Autodesk also aggressively re-evaluate historical limitations looking to remove any handcuffs.

[Anonymous · Accepted solution]

Hi @engineeringNCMXB 

I have found the way to copy a footprint/symbol/device to another library.

1.- Open the destination library.

2.-Add to your schematic/board the device you want to copy.

3.- Right button and "copy footprint to library".

Best regards

[engineeringNCMXB]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Hi @engineeringNCMXB 

I have found the way to copy a footprint/symbol/device to another library.

1.- Open the destination library.

2.-Add to your schematic/board the device you want to copy.

3.- Right button and "copy footprint to library".

Excellent, thanks for sharing. Hopefully we will see the ability to copy from library to library directly soon. This is a good workaround until then.

[jorge_garcia]

Hi @TrippyLighting,

I didn't mean for my comment to "shut down the conversation". You are correct that most of the time disasters are due to human error. That's why part of good design is to implement things in such a way as to help the user avoid a disastrous situation, something historically Fusion has been very proficient in.

My comment is focused really on the automatic part of the workflow. Having designs changed automatically without user intervention carries risk especially when a lot of designs are involved. That risk is something to be managed and the ECAD world chooses typically to manage it by forcing explicit updates.

Obviously, I'm a product support specialist I don't carry any authority to make decisions on how or what gets implemented. I simply take these threads and pass them up the chain.

Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

Best Regards,