what does this mean: " sketch is fully constrained"

[cekuhnen]

I followed the video also activated preview sketch in preferences but cannot replicate the same visual color changes for sketches.

How is this supposed to work? The video does not really explain the ideas behind it very clearly. It mentions great feedback but what feedback?

[HughesTooling]

Here's another go by adding a horizontal constraint instead of the anchor it shows fully constrained.

Mark.

[Anonymous]

Mark, so you're seeing the same behavior I am.  Very strange.  Also regarding the overconstraint issue, it seems a little confusing, but can can fix/anchor points after they have been dimensioned, and will not get overconstraint error, as this is "locking down" the dimensions that are already there.  However fixing two points first, then trying to drive dimension them, will give overconstraint error, I guess since solver thinks you want to dimension a different value between them (can do a driven dimension of course).  Non-commutative order of operations I guess 😉

Jesse 

[HughesTooling]

Here's another inconsistency with the centre rectangle.

Mark.

[cekuhnen]

If I would add dumensioms the. I would get an over constraint warning. Where do you seean anchor?

[daniel_lyall]

@promm

when I do cabints and stuff like I do it bottom up I dont even start at the origin I just draw it, remove some of the constrants, demention, set up paramaters test and if all is goos put the constrants back in where I wont them test and done.

i dont use the grid just a blank page it works and I can ref from the fist drawing all the way through if there is a better way that would be cool to see

[kb9ydn]

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@daniel_lyall wrote:

@promm

when I do cabints and stuff like I do it bottom up I dont even start at the origin I just draw it, remove some of the constrants, demention, set up paramaters test and if all is goos put the constrants back in where I wont them test and done.

i dont use the grid just a blank page it works and I can ref from the fist drawing all the way through if there is a better way that would be cool to see

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It's best to always work with fully constrained sketches, but many times you can get away without it.  Being fully constrained does not require any direct reference to the origin either; it can be to any other fixed geometry as well, including other components.

I've only just messed with the new version briefly but there is definitely something wrong wth the solver.  It appears to be related to dimensioning when some part of the sketch is already grounded.

C|

[Anonymous]

That's how I do it too, but now that it looks like the overconstraint bugs are fixed, it might be worth revisting the option of snapping to the origin for sketches.

Jesse

[Anonymous]

 Are you referring to a general sketching problem or something related to the experimental constrained color indicator?

Jesse

[daniel_lyall]

@kb9ydn

the drawings when finished are constrained it was just with how it was, how I do it was a work around as quite often a drawing would go mad removing some constraints then demonizing the drawing setting paramater`s putting constarints back in at the end I did not have a drawing go mad.

I did it the same way yesterday but I did not remove the constrants or ground (dont know how anyway) and it was fine, the problem is with the colour thing haveing to ground it to make it constrained I dont like that idea I have not done it at all and its fine so I have defited that idea as everything was fine with not grounding so the question is, is it realy needed

[Anonymous]

I don't think it's really needed.  BTW just in case you ever do need it ;), to ground something first select the Fix/Unfix constraint icon in the Sketch Pallete, or select a point or line then right click and choose Fix/Unfix.  In either of these ways, the grounding is toggled. 

Jesse

[daniel_lyall]

ta

[kb9ydn]

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@Anonymous wrote:

 Are you referring to a general sketching problem or something related to the experimental constrained color indicator?

Jesse

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It only happens when the constraint detection is turned on, but it's not (exactly) a problem with the colors.

Setup a sketch like shown in this picture and then try to add an equal constraint to the two vertical lines.  It won't do it and says the sketch will be overconstrained (which is absolutely a bug).  But if you unfix the lower left corner point it will add the equal constraint.  Then if you fix the lower left corner again it will also work.

One problem with the color coding as it is currently, is that it doesn't show the constraint status of the endpoints of a line separately from the line itself.  A line can be fully constrained while its end points are free to move.  Even still, it's a step in the right direction.

C|

[Anonymous]

Just tried that, yeah not good, experimental color indicator effects general sketching in a buggy way.  I already was not using it nor planning on integrating it into a new kind of educational system (but all the other updates are great) because of the confusion associated with it and its performance (and as a small qualm of the color changing to black like the dimension lines).  But you're definitely right, it's moving in the right direction, and I'm sure eventually will be a more functional tool that can optionally be turned on when someone is having trouble for some reason with their sketch (besides being very difficult to redo my whole educational program, for even small changes lead to confusion, I think it would also be potentially more confusing for people to use in general, even when fully functional, since adds another layer of complexity that normally isn't even needed: that is, normally sketches and sketch elements do not even need to be fully defined). 

Jesse

[daniel_lyall]

well I do have to say you AD humans could of left this bit out, in this vid grounding is not use but it`s fully constrained  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlpWvLSVikA

 so since it`s not quite finished getting there you could of just not said about it and there would not have been a problem, as you do it any way for some things so it`s never here nor there if you do it with grounding I don't like it and wont use it for drawing but i will use grounding when doing a joint with motion that`s what you are meant to do.

so just another sort off ops with the other one that might get fixed but its not a problem you guys do a very good job and know your stuff but you are only Humans anyway (I hope your not cybermen) 

[venkitr]

I do the same behavior for the center rectangle, but seems to be fine for the rectangle on the left.

As the definition of fully contrained sketch goes " if all degrees of freedom of a sketch entity is eliminated by adding contraints or dimension, it is fully contraint".

But seems to be the rectangle on the right doesn't update as per that.

[daniel_lyall]

you can do a constrained drawing without demanding to centre but it`s not easy you have to know what it is going to look like before drawing and demention as you go and it`s very buggy but you can get some very interesting shapes when it goes mad it fun just playing and letting it go mad

[FrankCao]

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@cekuhnen wrote:

What I struggle right now is grasping the logic the solver follows:

Below two lines are white beccause with the other constraints and the sketch center they are locked down.

Adding a dimension left locks the top edge down - so now you cannot stretch the sketch left and right anymore

because the arc and the vertial dimensions lock the width in place.

but why is the right edge not white from the beginning? It is constraint as well!

And why is the bottom line white while there is no constraint that defines or restricts the left and right movement/scale

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Hi,

I tried creating similar sketchs here on my Mac and cannot reproduce this issue. So I am a little confused how you build this sketch. Could you please post your file here so I can forward it to sketch developer for further investigation?

Thanks,

Frank

[HughesTooling]

Here's an example from another program where you get a colour change when the size is constrained but position isn't and a colour change when a sketch is fully constrained.

Also a rectangle with one point constrained to the origin shows unconstrained.

When one dimension is added it shows 1 line fully constrained and 1 line as position unconstrained.

For this feature to be of use it really need to work as well as the examples above.

Mark.

[HughesTooling]

Some more examples, this time from FreeCAD.

Solver Message tells you 4 point are unconstrained.

One corner constrained, solver tells you 2 points unconstrained.

With one dimension.

Fully constrained. Also selecting constrains in the constraint dialog highlights them in the sketch!

Mark

[Anonymous]

I'd say it's worth releasing experimental stuff like this, since the developers are already getting good feedback like this, if it's worth continuing to pursue, etc., instead of just working on it in "vacuum" until final release.  I think it's a cool user interaction development approach they're taking in general.

This constrained indicator is definitely worth pursuing, but I think it would be best to always keep it optional.

Jesse