Unable to create joint without errors (new user)

[Rob-NL]

Hi, fairly new user here and this is my first post. Hope someone can give me a hand with my questions or point me in the right direction.

Introduction
I've been trying to teach myself how to use Fusion by watching YouTube video's and by a lot of experimentation and trial and error. This with the end goal of using CAD to design (and then build) a lot of items in my home renovation project. Specifically items such as inbuilt wardrobes, utility cabinets, bathroom cabinets and my workshop workbenches.

Context
I've started by recreating the workbench in Fusion that I recently built in real life from a set of purchased Sketchup plans. It took me quite a long while but I eventually succeeded in getting a perfect copy of the Sketchup model and my real life workbench. However, I didn't use the correct workflow and only managed to get there with a lot of yellow items on my timeline. I mainly succeeded in getting the desired end result by trying and retrying until things looked right. And not by always fully understanding why something did or didn't work out. This first project did get me very motivated to better learn how to create with Fusion though.

First real project (with a lot of warnings)

So I decided to start again from scratch, apply my lessons learned, to use Parameters from the get-go and to learn why things do or don't work in Fusion. Specifically so that I can create variations of the initial workbench design by setting different widths and depths in the Parameters, as I'll be building a very wide workbench soon to cover an entire wall in my workshop.

Current issue
I thought I was doing well, with no yellow or red in my timeline, having all sketches dimensioned/ constrained and by using parameters, joints and rigid groups. Until I copied a component and tried to join it like I had done with the original component.

I can't seem to get this copied component joined where I want it to go without a warning. I can get it in the correct position by just moving it but I think then the model would break when I change the dimensions in the parameters.

Example of what I see when I try to join

Question(s)

• What am I doing wrong here? / how can I create the join I'm looking for (see image from the purchased Sketchup plans below the second question)
• Is there a resource where I can learn what the icons mean that I see when I hover over a "jointable point" in the design? I now just keep trying all variations until the animation shows me the move I'm looking for.

Joint that I'm trying, but failing, to recreate: the upper centerrail

Attachments

• The first file I made that looks good but was made with a lot of warnings (Hooked on Wood Workbench without parameters v2.f3d)
• The current file where I try to recreate the first file but now by doing everything correctly (Paramatric design Hooked on Wood workbench nr2 v18.f3d)

[Rob-NL]

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@TrippyLighting wrote:

@Drewpan  also recommended you read the documentation. In this case, I would recommend the Ground to Parent section, which I have linked to here, for your convenience!

Once you've done this, you need to examine my model, going step by step through the timeline, to see how it works. 

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Was actually just going through the timeline of your file to see how you did things. But will pause that to read that section you linked to.

I'm so impressed to have found such an active and supportive community, blows my mind. Especially that people here would go through the trouble of examining my files and creating a better version and a video even. 

[TrippyLighting]

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@Rob-NL wrote:

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... blows my mind. Especially that people here would go through the trouble of examining my files and creating a better version and a video even. 

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I wish more people would do this! This is one of the best ways to learn a new tool.

Trying to analyze other people's designs and figure out alternative, sometimes more efficient, and effective methods has very much informed how I work with Fusion today!

I did not discover the power of the Ground-to-parent attribute in combination with patterns until a user in another thread asked a question and shared a model.  

[Rob-NL]

I’ve received a ton of valuable feedback in a very short amount of time, very happy with the help. Here’s what I’ll do with it:

• See if I can get the desired result in my overjointed 2nd design by following davebYYPCU’s input
• Recreate my second design by doing what davebYYPCU suggested: create every unique component first, pattern copy and assemble. 

See if either of these two paths will bring me forward. Those two are more for (the hopefully) fairly instant gratification and to hopefully learn why I failed in the first place.

Then,

• Read the Ground to Parent section in the Product Documentation as suggested by Drewpan 
• Watch the entire Self Paced Learning video library
• Read the rest of the Product Documentation
• See if I can reproduce the design version that TrippyLighting was kind enough to provide me with. This will then probably be the new basis of my 3rd design as even I can see that this method is very elegant and has benefits for further on in the design.
• Report back here with an update, feels like the correct thing to do.

Many thanks for helping a beginner out in such a nice way.

[davebYYPCU]

I did watch the video - did not end well.  Has it been updated.

What caused the spreaders to be removed?

Pin to Parent requires a workflow of build in place, not ready for that.

I like hybrid.  Couple of skeleton sketches and Joints early.

@Rob-NL I have my version, can attach later in the day, just another way to get it done.

Might help….

[Rob-NL]

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@Rob-NL I have my version, can attach later in the day, just another way to get it done.

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Would love that, thanks.

[TrippyLighting]

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@davebYYPCU wrote:

I did watch the video - did not end well.  Has it been updated?

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What exactly do you mean by - did not end well?

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@davebYYPCU wrote:

.

What caused the spreaders to be removed?

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A bug, as I mentioned in the video. I reported it, and the Fusion team is looking into it.

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@davebYYPCU wrote:

Pin to Parent requires a workflow of build in place, not ready for that.

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@Rob-NL used a build-in-place workflow for the initial components. Once you duplicate a build-in-place component, you'll have a number of choices. You can assemble the component using a joint, which you call "hybrid"  or if the situation allows it, as it did in this design, pattern it.

If you GTP the built-in-place component before patterning it, which by all means you should, the patterned instance will also be GTP. So the result is that you don't need any joints!

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@davebYYPCU wrote:

I like hybrid.  Couple of skeleton sketches and Joints early.

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What I "like" is giving users advice that builds good habits using the latest features, the GTP attribute in this case.

The GTP attribute has significant advantages in terms of computational efficiency over a joint. With a little forethought, complex designs can be made much simpler using the GTP attribute.

[davebYYPCU]

My take on it, a workflow I am used to - is hybrid.  

@TrippyLighting - was a bit of cussing and no top spreaders.  GTP is so new I am not up to speed on it, so would not be recommending it until I understand it, from what you have done, makes total sense.  Used some in here.

@Rob-NL All of my User Parameters are purposefully not the same as yours, please change them back to your spec.  I have proofed them, but you never know.

Might help...

[TrippyLighting]

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@davebYYPCU wrote:

...  GTP is so new I am not up to speed on it, so would not be recommending it until I understand it, ...  

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Good point. Well, then, get with the program 😉

Remember that when you pattern a no-GTP  component, the patterned instances are free-floating, and you have to use a rigid group joint to assemble them.

When you changed the instance counter in the pattern, you always had to touch the rigid group joint. It either turned yellow because you lowered the instance counter and it was missing a previously selected component, or you were not left with one or more free pattern instances.

With GTP, if done correctly, that is completely gone! 

Component patterns are now fully parametric!

[CGBenner]

@Rob-NL Hello, do you still need help with this question?

[Rob-NL]

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@CGBenner wrote:

@Rob-NLHello, do you still need help with this question?

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I'm still going through the video tutorials and then hope to be able to get the job done with the advice given here.