Stumped: Cannot Fully Define Sketch

Stumped: Cannot Fully Define Sketch

Anonymous
Not applicable
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21 Replies
Message 1 of 22

Stumped: Cannot Fully Define Sketch

Anonymous
Not applicable

Hello,

 

Here is a little part I have been working on recently.  I cannot, for the life of me, get the sketch fully defined.  The part is known as a Link Bracket.  The most important feature is the spacing of the three holes.  The fillets near the bottom hole do not have specified radii.  Other than that, everything is indicated in the original drawing (attached).

 

Thanks for anyone who helps.

 

Marty

Accepted solutions (2)
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21 Replies
Replies (21)
Message 2 of 22

LeonardoBN
Advocate
Advocate

Hello, @Anonymous.

I tried to fully constrain your sketch, and I noted two things:

- I applied a vertical constraint to your symmetry line, which constrained the top part of the sketch;

- I added a dimension of 1/8" between the narrow areas of the sketch, which constrained the other entities.

 

Let me know if these two actions keep your design intent.

Captura de tela 2020-04-29 10.27.40.png

 

Leonardo Brunelli do Nascimento
Chemical Engineer
Message 3 of 22

wmhazzard
Advisor
Advisor

Here is simplified version with no construction geometry. Using equal helps simplify also. 

sketch.JPG

Message 4 of 22

Anonymous
Not applicable

I am still having trouble with the constraints.  There is one remaining driven dimension at the top of the sketch.  The two holes are spaced evenly from the center line at a distance of 0.1015625 or 0.203125 between centers.  See attached sketch.

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Message 5 of 22

LeonardoBN
Advocate
Advocate

As you constrained all your sketch, I see no use in that driven dimension. You already know that distance from the right side. 

You can delete it and everything remain constrained.

 

Additionally, you can use the Equal constraint to save time.

I attached an updated F3D file.

Leonardo Brunelli do Nascimento
Chemical Engineer
Message 6 of 22

davebYYPCU
Consultant
Consultant

I think your trouble stems from duplicate entities. 

Overlapping lines are covering unconstrained untied duplicates.

If you are making duplicate dimensions, then an equals constraint can replace it, making it clean and easier to read.

I deleted all the construction lines, (6 or 7 of them)

The top line of the sketch is a pair of half lines??.  

fcscbd.PNG

Might help.

Message 7 of 22

wmhazzard
Advisor
Advisor

In the file that you attached there are unconstrained construction lines that you don't really need anyway so you can actually delete all the construction lines as they aren't really needed. You also don't need all of those dimensions, use equal, coincident and tangent in place of some of the dimensions. 

 

Here is the way I would draw it. 

sketch 2.JPG

Message 8 of 22

davebYYPCU
Consultant
Consultant

But you should not change his profile just to make an easier draw.

(straight lines off the 0.2mm arc.)

Message 9 of 22

wmhazzard
Advisor
Advisor

So you can see the straight lines on the 2d drawing that he is working from, there are no dimensions on that area so it is open to interpretation. 

Message 10 of 22

JamieGilchrist
Autodesk
Autodesk
Accepted solution

HI Marty,

 

I think everybody in in this thread has give some good advice and I hope you are able to get to the result you want.

 

I'd like to share a bit of my perspective on this (much of it is already represented by others here), but there's a few things to consider when using any 3D parametric CAD modeler. 

 

  • Keep you sketches as simple as possible, remember Mies van der Rohe said "less is more." This is the philosophy to take when it comes to your sketches.
  • What's the least amount of information you can provide to create the 3D geometry
  • Don't try to cram everything into one sketch, when you run into problems (and you will at some point) it's much easier to trouble shoot the root of the problem when your sketches are simpler
  • Remember the production drawings, like the one for the link bracket are for a fabricators/manufacturers to make the part from. When building CAD models, the sketch isn't always going to replicate the drawing you have in hand (or on screen)
  • Much of this comes from experience, and there's almost always more than one way to get there.
  • Look at the problem and how do you distill it into its simplest geometric shapes and forms.

With that said, If I were to look at your sketch as an instructor,  the things I see are typical new to cad workflow problems.  You did a good job getting the shape right and dimensioned. The one thing I'd say about your sketch is it's over complicated, too many duplicate dimensions, too many unnecessary construction lines, disconnected geometry (the white dots) and it's hard to determine if that's some of the extra construction geometry or the curves you actually want to make the 3D part from.  

When I look at the break down of the drawing I see it like this:

the magenta curves are your critical dimensions and the green are resultant geometry

Screen Shot 2020-04-30 at 2.57.05 PM.png

 

Following to a sketch that looks like this: there's a number of constraints not shown in this image (I'll attach my version so you can understand what I did here). This is very, very simple.  I intentionally left the holes out, because I'm using the hole command in the modeling tools to do that, I just need center point locations

JamieGilchrist_0-1588284037842.png

 

Again,  the response from other folks in this thread I know were helpful, I just wanted to give a bit more insights into the why/how to approach a sketch like this.

hope this helps,


Jamie Gilchrist
Senior Principal Experience Designer
Message 11 of 22

Anonymous
Not applicable

Jamie,

 

Thank you for the detailed response.  I appreciate your guidance and the advice of others.  As for all of the duplicate and over dimensioning of the part.  I added all of those dimensions in an attempt to fully constrain the sketch.  I understand they can also cause confusion and also make the sketch more difficult to read.

 

I am in the process of taking hand-drawn sketches and converting them into CAD.  The parts are from a model steam locomotive construction book.  I would like to prepare several parts for cutting on a water-jet machine so when my state's shut-down orders begin to ease, I can pick up where I left off in the making of the model.  For the most part, the drawings are excellent, especially when you consider they are hand-made!  I have found some dimensions, such as fillets, are not indicated and left up to the modeler's discretion. 

 

I enjoy the challenge (at least for me) of learning something new.  Using Fusion 360 is an exercise in problem-solving.  I think  I have everything drawn and dimensioned correctly, but those blue lines just keep persisting.  Then the hunt is on to look for the solution.  I am thankful to you and others who take time to help strangers and newbies - especially in simple terms.

 

I have one question related to converting paper drawings to digital sketches.  The author of the drawings indicates most dimensions in fractions.  Often, these fractions translate to some large decimals.  Take 13/64, for example.  In decimal equivalent: 0.203125.  What advice would you offer when creating CAD sketches?  Would you just input the fraction dimensions and let Fusion 360 convert them to decimals?  Or would you round the decimals to the nearest thousandth?  The manufacturing equipment I use has DROs that measure to the thousandth.  My concern is that rounding all of these decimals will create problems constraining the sketch. 

 

Thanks again,

 

Marty

Message 12 of 22

TheCADWhisperer
Consultant
Consultant
Accepted solution

@Anonymous wrote:

I have one question related to converting paper drawings to digital sketches.  The author of the drawings indicates most dimensions in fractions.    Take 13/64, for example.


In most cases I would enter the fractions as given. (But keep in the back of your mind that 0.203125 cannot be manufactured.)

Keep in mind that back when everything was done in 2D with paper and pencil, it was not so easy to discover assembly/kinematic issues.  Address any issues as needed by editing dimensions if needed.  I would not round most dimensions unless you know something about the relevance to assembly or realistic manufacturing tolerances.  Once you have (virtual) assembled and tested the kinematics you can start editing for manufacturable tolerances.

My initial attempt is simply to gain an understanding of the geometry.

Message 13 of 22

TheCADWhisperer
Consultant
Consultant
Message 14 of 22

Anonymous
Not applicable

Dear @TheCADWhisperer ,

 

Thank you for the instructional screencast.  I appreciate you taking time to make it and do the easy to understand voice over.  Are you familiar with the term "metacognition?"  It is an education term meaning "explaining aloud your thought processes."  The pacing of your video was just right.  I have seen others where the presenter is moving so quickly it is hard to know what he/she has selected.

 

I am in the process of going back through several sketches I had and extruded to thickness.  I thought several of them were fully constrained, because I was able to extrude them.  I now realize that is not necessarily the case.  I'm sure I'll be back to the forum soon...

 

Marty

Message 15 of 22

tristan_carl
Explorer
Explorer

I am having the exact same problem with my stuff. I'm in high school right now, and my Digital Manufacturing class is confusing me, since no matter what I do, I cannot, for the life of me, get ANY of my sketches to define at all whatsoever. I put them on the origin lines, I put the center point of my sketches on the origin point too. Yet none of that helps! The lines still stay blue! I'm honestly really confused. I mean, one of my classmates managed to make it and it was defined! I don't know what the hell I'm doing wrong here. I've even remade my sketches a few times over. Nada. Nothing. Zilch. Nein. Can someone help me out here? I'll put a screenshot of what I made down below, along with the instructions of what my teacher expects, and what my classmate did as well. @JamieGilchrist, @TheCADWhisperer, and @davebYYPCU, please help me out here. You guys seem to know what you're doing here.

By the way, the one that has the book like background is the what my teacher has for us. The one with all the blue lines is my work, and the fully defined one is my classmate's work. Please look through each one carefully to see what I did wrong. 

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Message 16 of 22

tristan_carl
Explorer
Explorer

Btw, I seriously need help. My grade literally depends on this. I won't go into detail on what my grade is, but it's kinda bad...

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Message 17 of 22

tristan_carl
Explorer
Explorer

I really don't know what to do. But please, please, for the love of God, please help me out. I'm close to failing, so if I don't find help or something, and yes, I know, you're probably going to say that I have a teacher for that. I get it. However, when I ask, he doesn't give clear enough instructions, leaving me confused. So, I'm turning to the Autodesk Fusion360 community. And also, the reason his instructions aren't clear enough is because, well... I have ADD(Attention Deficit Disorder.) Now, don't get that and ADHD mixed. The 'H' stands for Hyperactive. I do not have that. So, can someone with enough expertise please help me out? And if I went a little far with the medical stuff, I am sorry for that in advance. Reply to me when you can. And by that, I mean: @TheCADWhisperer@JamieGilchrist, and @davebYYPCU, please reply when you can. You seem to have expertise, especially you, Jamie, considering the Autodesk logo. That to me is a good sign that you have quite a bit of expertise in this field.

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Message 18 of 22

davebYYPCU
Consultant
Consultant

First you have white points, and some on the outline, they should not be there.

Next you would be served well to dimension or make things coincident to the origin, lining up is not good enough.

 

wdftdb.PNGwdftdb1.PNG

 

Sketch articles should be constrained and then dimensions for size.

Unless you have to use mirrors in a sketch, this is all you need, and mirror twice in the modelling window.

 

Might help...

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Message 19 of 22

tristan_carl
Explorer
Explorer

So... This is just supposed to be a sketch. No extrusions or anything like that. However, I think the mirroring thing may help me out here. I'll try it.

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Message 20 of 22

tristan_carl
Explorer
Explorer

Alright... @davebYYPCU, thank you so very much. I did an extrusion in the end to see if I got it right, and what do you know, I did! I can't thank you enough for this. Seriously, I can't.

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