STOP CHANGING MY SETTINGS ON UPDATES

[yoshimitsuspeed]

I don't even have words to explain how upset I am right now. At least not words that should be posted on a public forum.
I have wasted probably hundreds of hours dealing with F360 issues, crashes and bugs in the last few months. For someone who is working about 14 hours a day 6+ days a week every time some S happens it is very inconvienent.
After the update I couldn't open a drawing. Error message said I needed to completely remove and reinstall F360.
About an hour later I can open the D drawing.
Now tonight I try to open F360 and all I see is gray. A month ago I had graphics problems where everything disappeared so I figured it was the same issue. So I spend about an hour reinstalling my graphics driver, changing graphics settings, restarting my computer, trying directx 9, directx11, and a whole bunch of other crap. Then I startup my laptop to test it there only to find the same GD problem. Then I figure it can't be my computer so I open up the grid to find out it's been disabled. First thought is maybe a setting got deleted when I reinstalled. Then I realized it couldn't be that because my laptop was the same.

STOP CHANGING MY SETTINGS ON UPDATES.

Some other notes.
After big updates F360 disappears completely from my start tab recent programs. It's like Windows doesn't even recognize it's the same program. If you are going to force me to use microcrap at least make your crap compatible with it.

CAM
After a big update when I go to post process it is completely reset. Error pops up saying folder does not exist would you like to reset to default. Last time I talked to an AD employee they tried to upsell this BS like it is done on purpose and is a feature. It's not a feature it's a PITA bug. I shouldn't have to feel like I am setting up a new program completely from scratch after every update. It should just all work like it did GDFyesterday.
Click yes reset to default location. Now most everything comes back but now the output folder is set back to the GD default.

I'm sure I could go on and on but I am going to hope this is the last of my problems for the night and hope I can get this project finished before midnight.

Edited by
Discussion_Admin

[roambotics_scott]

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@daniel_lyall wrote:

you blocks are going in circules 

yes fusion has problems, bits missing, some have bad internet conections yer it`s going to be slow I do all my fusion work at night why internet`s faster, during the day it`s slow as a wet week. that`s not fusion makeing uploads and down loads to be slow it`s every one on the net that`s doing it.

yer it crashes I can crash V carve pro, I can crash fusion to, if I hit something that crash`s fusion I send in a report and move on if you spent as much time complaning and just sent in a good report on the problem pic`s vid and what happened then just moved on it would get fixed faster.

---

My read there /\ is that the difference is perceptual. You're tolerant of slowness and crashes.

The thing is that those are annoyances when you're tinkering but when you actually have to finish something on a deadline and you're barely getting any sleep for a week or two, crashes and slowness are kinda a big deal and saying people shouldn't be bothered by them is weak as cat's piss.

Filing a good bug report is great. Mine deteriorated significantly due to frustration but started out solid enough. Just moving on isn't easy, though, when you absolutely have to finish something and there aren't many paths to get from where you are to where you're going.

[yoshimitsuspeed]

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@daniel_lyall wrote:

you blocks are going in circules 

yes fusion has problems, bits missing, some have bad internet conections yer it`s going to be slow I do all my fusion work at night why internet`s faster, during the day it`s slow as a wet week. that`s not fusion makeing uploads and down loads to be slow it`s every one on the net that`s doing it.

yer it crashes I can crash V carve pro, I can crash fusion to, if I hit something that crash`s fusion I send in a report and move on if you spent as much time complaning and just sent in a good report on the problem pic`s vid and what happened then just moved on it would get fixed faster.

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Out of maybe 500 crashes I have gotten maybe 5 crash report screens so for me a crash report takes about 15 minutes of gathering the proper info to be of any use. I probably have less than that into this whole thread. As roambotics_scott said when you are just messing around that 15 min a few times a week doesn't matter. When you are trying to get something done it really does.
The benefit of this thread is that others get to see and know about it and quite honestly I hope the public visibility gives Autodesk more motivation to solve these issues.

[daniel_lyall]

I am far from tolerant of crash and bugs the slowness on up loads and down loads is down to your Internet connection, not fusion if it was fusion would it not be slow all the time not just slow during the day, and fast at night so how is that being tolerant its not, I dont use it when it`s slow.

bugs and crashes piss me of no end I just move on and get on with it, and how do you know if I have dead lines or what ever or what I draw with fusion you dont have a clue what I do.

and I am not a black mark or what the ever if I am so arnt you.

and working around problems saves me from haveing problems to start with I would call that being smart or is that just wrong.

come on life to short to jump up and down over a young cad/cam program state ya problems move on 

[cekuhnen]

Actually I have to say compared to the first time I used fusion it is pretty stable now. My students are master at crashing alias left and right.

[roambotics_scott]

That's good to hear @cekuhnen. Still not my experience but seems like progress.

@daniel_lyallIf you're not tolerant of the problems then I'd rather you not tell us to tolerate them.

Sure - we should (and must) work around the issues, but the key thing that AD doesn't get because people aren't jumping up and down screaming at them is that there are very serious issues.

What really sticks in my craw is that lots of people apparently have these issues and are even bothered by them, but I look like an a-hole for getting up and screaming about them.

If these problems really are persistently there, and it's not just me being a thorn in their side because I get some sort of perverse pleasure out of it, AD should be redoubling their efforts to fix the irritation. Every person who tolerates that is just making it that much harder for things to improve.

[cekuhnen]

I am a pretty direct person but can we tune back the tone here?

[daniel_lyall]

i am not saying tolerate I am saying report them move on. and there is more than one way to report problems only you think your a A hole I don't know you so I have no problem with you.

I would say AD is trying to fix problems.

here`s a question for you if you have 1000 problems to fix how would you go about it and half of them being big problems that make people`s computers crash and you only had 10 people to fix the problems.

I am not defending AD at all but I have found them to be prity good people some of them no about my problems and always offer to help in anyway they can. my problems make me very hard on people who just don't get on with it and adapt but that`s me.

you can keep saying about what ever you come across that is wrong, or courses things to go side ways that`s up to you I do everyone say about something that affect`s them but they my do different things to you and not find the same problems.

I don't always have the same problems you have I have had some.

[roambotics_scott]

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@daniel_lyall wrote:

i am not saying tolerate I am saying report them move on. and there is more than one way to report problems only you think your a A hole I don't know you so I have no problem with you.

I would say AD is trying to fix problems.

I would totally agree several years ago.. a couple years ago.. a year ago.

I actually have an absurd amount of patience but it's long since worn thin.

One of the more frustrating things for me has been meeting with so many people at AD, seeing what nice people they are, being told how much they care about making things work, and then seeing that years later things are barely improved. 

here`s a question for you if you have 1000 problems to fix how would you go about it and half of them being big problems that make people`s computers crash and you only had 10 people to fix the problems.

I see that you're getting at basic triage. That's great but my concern (and what I think is actually happening) is more like those ten people are running around plugging holes in an earthen dam with their fingers and toes and nobody seems to seriously consider that maybe silty mud wasn't the best choice to hold back the ocean.

[daniel_lyall]

well I just think where are AD is going is just going to be wrong for some people depending on what they do correct for other`s like me. but I have other programs to use where fusion fail`s sort, it will change over time, they have a few thing missing what I think is wrong. I have said about it one they are doing what`s a bit late as I don't needed it any more but that`s life.

some of the thing`s they have asked me about and they agree it`s a good idea and have said they will do it out of 4 they did one but they are to do with some of your complainants too, wording of stuff but I am a tutor so it`s stuff I know how to do trained to do.

so your complants are valid just not put to well what`s not your fault at all it`s something you can only be showen how to do

[cekuhnen]

I am out of this thread because it turns faster in to a rant format.

That's not very constructive nor motivating.

Fusion has issues it is a new product. Just yesterday a file fell part and I was told it is not a bug. Well that means Fusion cannot even make sure its files remain stable.

Or the drawing module that was part of ultimate is utterly incometent to create usable PDF / EPS exports and the DWG stuff no other application besides Autocad can open?

Seriously what a useless software part - I gladly rather use Rhino for this task then doing 2D drawings from step. Because nothing else is futile anyway.

Now I have two ways to see it: this is embarassing and a joke of a software

or

AD stretches themselfs to thin and makes many things at the same time and not few things but well.

And I respond to that thinking that both are right it is a joke but it is a new product bugs can be expected everybody who thinks this is mature only because it is on the market is making not a smart deicssion and not everything thats shiny is gold.

Meaning take a deep breath Fusion does require more time to mature but it will get better but not in days but months/years.

That is the fact accept it or not. I give them the benefit of the doubt that with time they will be able to deliver the product they want.

Anything else is honestly wasted negative energy.

My 2 cents and I am out.

[roambotics_scott]

I don't know if this «negative / ranty» thing is directed at me, but either way / just to be clear - I'm not trying to be negative or ranty.

I'm trying to sound an alarm and say «It's an amazing / game-changing program but something is systematically wrong. It has been for a long time. It really is a big deal. It's keeping people like me from using or recommending F360. It'd be a good thing to figure out and fix.»

I know I've said that before more than once and that's been my message consistently since I got fed up I don't even know how long ago. This thread clearly shows that even after my hiatus these things are still issues and even the cheerleaders in this thread have said «yes it crashes and.. but just suck it up». You're misreading me there because I'm not even talking about myself. I'm talking about all of the current and potential future users who are going to silently get frustrated and stop using the program or not tell their friends and colleagues about it or (as I do) tell them about it with a lot of apologies and conditions.

I feel like I'm on the deck of the Titanic.

First I said calmly «It's a beautiful boat but shouldn't we do something about that iceberg way off in the distance?» and I heard «oh yeah we've got it!» but I keep seeing it getting closer and closer, I get more hystarical to try to get the captain to right the ship, and almost everybody on the boat is upset with me for trying to get something done, and telling me to relax and not worry about it. «Ah it's not a big deal / it's fine! It'll be fine! Don't worry about it! Why are you being so critical?»

[Anonymous]

Scott, don't you think if multiple users have told you that you're going overboard, that something might be wrong with your approach here? 

Repeatedly making grandiose and overblown claims is not going to help fix anything, but only continue to cast a "gloomy tone" to what is generally otherwise a helpful forum revolving around a software and philosophy that is teeming with possibilities (click on my name to see my take on this).  I know that for a user such as myself that is highly encouraged and deeply values all this, seeing such continued negative claims does nothing good, for anyone really.  That's fine if due to some previous experiences that you've developed some negative views, and that you've really latched on to some problems another user has had.  But if you don't agree with the strategy behind Fusion 360, it's just not productive, again for anyone, to drone on and on about it...again this board being a place of offering solutions and hope.  Thankfulness (and certainly when it's well merited) goes a lot further, for everybody, than a criticizing attitude (regardless of what might have happened in the past).  I'm not going to argue with you back and forth here, just putting forth my view.

Jesse

[roambotics_scott]

I'm sure something is wrong with my approach, Jesse, because I'm so very clearly not being heard here. That's part of my frustration.

I'm not being grandiose or all gloom and doom.

I never said «the ship is sinking». I said «You might want to watch out because there is an iceberg ahead. It's a beautiful boat and there are a lot of good people on it, and if you keep heading in this direction, it could be really bad.».

[Anonymous]

LOL, I'm not going to argue about semantics, but making such grand statements like the trajectory needs to be all changed/is all wrong (which I disagree with) is pretty over the top, if you ask me.

[roambotics_scott]

LOL I'm really glad I bothered to try to explain myself with a calm and civil tone.

[Anonymous]

I appreciate that, and you are very concise and imaginative, I'm just trying to convey that the kind of focus that's being exhibited/perpetuated here, can actually have a negative effect for many, if it becomes a chronic thing.  Like I said, Fusion 360 and the amazing, bold philosophy behind it deserves just as awesome of help forum, that is not incumbered by chronic negativity, that so often incumbers other endeavors.  

Jesse

[roambotics_scott]

The thing is that I totally agree (and have said many times) that the product is amazing and everyone I've ever interacted with on the team seems incredibly nice and well intentioned.

Someone who has never touched CAD really can sit down with F360 and in an hour design something cool. Not only that but if you know what you're doing and work a little harder, you can use it to make complicated mechanisms and take things to production.

That's what makes it so frustrating for me because at the core it's so fantastic and it has so much potential but it's hamstrung by a few little things that suck time and make it painful to use and that part of the subjective experience of using it is improving much more slowly than I'd like or seems reasonable.

[Anonymous]

Fair enough 😉

Jesse

[yoshimitsuspeed]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Scott, don't you think if multiple users have told you that you're going overboard, that something might be wrong with your approach here? 

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The thing you have to remember and I am speaking purely for myself here is that I have tried different approaches over the last 10 months or how ever long I have been paying for this product.
I have tried the idea station. I have tried nice suggestive posts. I have tried mildly annoyed and irritated posts.
None seem to catch anyones attention. 
Notice how many times I have stresses how much time I have put into troubleshooting and have lost because of this software yet AD makes no effort to even sound a little appologetic or like that's not right. Every time you get the same text book corporate call center answers about how it is being worked on very hard and how everything will be fixed very soon. Or sometimes like with half the stuff that changes on every update just get told that's how it's supposed to be and just get used to it.  Every time something happens or when I loose an hour needing to reinstall because it no longer works properly I get treated like it's my obligation and duty to invest this time and more time on top of that to report, diagnose and troubleshoot.

So if you used this application as your primary CAD system in a professional environment where productivity and efficiency was paramount and you had spent the last months struggling with the same issues and the same answers what approach would you take?

cekuhnen

Despite this thread starting out in a very ranty and fairly angry format I do agree that the tone doesn't need to remain so agressive. I just don't understand why some, particularly @daniel_lyall needs to defend the product so agressively. Especially when half their posts completely contradict each other.
@daniel_lyall
The whole point of F 360 is to reduce the amount of programs you use. If I was okay with using a half dozen programs to accomplish my job I would still be using Freecad, Draftsight, Librecad, and a handful of other programs. Mostly FOSS because if I am going to loose my **** on time and inconvienence at least I don't have to pay for it.
Now that doesn't mean I expect F360 to meet 100% of my needs. At least not right away but it does mean that it should meet the basic ones a basic CAD program should.
More importantly it should crash and have less bugs and glitches than the FOSS applications I would otherwise prefer to use.
It sounds to me like you interentet connection sucks because I don't see any speed issues with F360. It is unfortunate and if I was in your situation I would probably have to look at using an application that didn't rely on internet connectivity because as a workling professional I can't choose to only do CAD at select times of the day. With that said I have not had this issue and I am not trying to pin issues beyond ADs control on them. I am talking about things that can be improved and should be generally expected of non beta non FOSS software.
I also realize this thread covers a spectrum of issues and some more important than others. Some more generalized and some more specific to individual needs but if I could put one key point on this thread it would be for AD to use some common sense. You should not need to go back and change many settings on updates. Yes this may bother some more than others but that is completely beside the point. It should not be an issue. Like I said I lost a ton of time because having my grid/origin turned off after the update looked almost exactly like a graphics bug I had a week before. I spent an hour reinstalling graphics drivers, restarting my computer, messing with graphics settings etc because it never ocurred to me that this setting might be changed. There is no good reason that it should be. I would also add that this should always be on by default. Someone new to the program opening to a completely monotone grey screen would likely be very confused. I know I have never opened a CAD or 3D program to find a blank screen with no point of refrence.

[roambotics_scott]

Just to put a slightly finer point on this 

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@yoshimitsuspeed wrote:

The thing you have to remember and I am speaking purely for myself here is that I have tried different approaches over the last 10 months or how ever long I have been paying for this product.
I have tried the idea station. I have tried nice suggestive posts. I have tried mildly annoyed and irritated posts.
None seem to catch anyones attention. 
Notice how many times I have stresses how much time I have put into troubleshooting and have lost because of this software yet AD makes no effort to even sound a little appologetic or like that's not right. Every time you get the same text book corporate call center answers about how it is being worked on very hard and how everything will be fixed very soon. Or sometimes like with half the stuff that changes on every update just get told that's how it's supposed to be and just get used to it.  Every time something happens or when I loose an hour needing to reinstall because it no longer works properly I get treated like it's my obligation and duty to invest this time and more time on top of that to report, diagnose and troubleshoot.

The most frustrating thing for me has been pretty much exactly that /\

Like Yoshi, I've tried many different approaches and I've been extremely patient. 

I hear «we're working on it!» «we care!» (or worse: «works fine for me!»). That all sounds great but talk is cheap and I just don't see much movement (or rather / more disappointingly - I see lots of movement but little progress).

I'd almost rather have AD just come out and say «we don't care, go eff yourself» because that's the message I'm getting (or at least how it feels to me) but it's so incongruent with the words I'm hearing. That disharmony between words and actions is maddening.

Autodesk solicits feedback. I say my experience is Sisyphean. They apologize and say they're working on it. I come back a year later and see someone else talking in the same way which gives me the impression that the wheels are still spinning in the same mud. It's disheartening.

I'm just throwing my hands up here and saying «please just make the thing work» not for my sake because I don't want to waste more time, but for the F360 team because you have all of these people working so hard to build something that's fundamentally broken.. and that I really believe can be fixed with the right focus.

This is something balanced on a precipice. It could really be game changing and the go-to app for hardware startups.. or it could be a historical side-note.

Personally, I'd much rather see it be the former.