sketch problems

[gneF9AUM]

Good day,

having come from a turbocad environment, i find the fusion sketch environment very rigid and hard to use. i am new to the software, so probably too soon to complain about it.

major issues:

1. You cannot define object handles. so i draw a square that has a handle in the center of the square. i can then dislodge the handle and move it to a midpoint or endpoint and then use my new handle to grip the part and snap it to an endpoint, center, midpoint, entity, etc. with fusion you have to use dimensions to relate the drawings. it feels clunky and slow right now. the move tool is also a bit clumsy. i am new to it so i will try and see what else is possible.
2. Some lines, once placed cannot be accessed again. I do an offset and after that i cannot snap a line to it. no matter what i cannot touch it or move it. it is locked. i cannot delete the offset constraint either it is locked. i cannot convert it to construction lines. nothing. i am still working in the same component, in the same sketch...
3. some strange things are not allowed. offset will not allow an offset of an offset. just blocks it. i can understand a complex shape, but a straight line?
4. even components that have been turned off get in the way of shapes i want to extrude and then it is really complicated to get to the shape i want to select to extrude.
5. the project tool is very strange i cannot select an entire chain. have to select each link on its own. and if you make the mistake of accidental clicking the object instead of an edge it will immediately extrude the entire thing and it cannot be undone. have to delete the sketch.  

as i say i am new to fusion and i am enjoying it enough that i will keep learning, but i don't understand some of the methods used to work.

if anyone has some ideas as to how to work these things let me know.

thanks 

[TrippyLighting]

Can you:

A. Share your design ? It can be exported as .f3d and attached to your next reply.

B. Create a screencast So we can assess the workflow you are following ?

[jeff_strater]

I can answer a few of your questions, for the rest we'll probably need a screencast or the design or preferably both.

1. You cannot define object handles. so i draw a square that has a handle in the center of the square. i can then dislodge the handle and move it to a midpoint or endpoint and then use my new handle to grip the part and snap it to an endpoint, center, midpoint, entity, etc. with fusion you have to use dimensions to relate the drawings. it feels clunky and slow right now. the move tool is also a bit clumsy. i am new to it so i will try and see what else is possible.

There is no concept of "object handles" in Fusion.  There are only "curves" (lines, arcs, circles, splines), and "points".  To precisely position points and curves, yes dimensions are the usual method to do that.  If a curve or point is not fully constrained, you can move it using Move, or just by dragging.

1. Some lines, once placed cannot be accessed again. I do an offset and after that i cannot snap a line to it. no matter what i cannot touch it or move it. it is locked. i cannot delete the offset constraint either it is locked. i cannot convert it to construction lines. nothing. i am still working in the same component, in the same sketch...

For this we'll need a screencast.  If the offset is in the same sketch you should definitely be able to snap a line to it.  Not sure what you mean by "touch" it.  As far as moving an offset, the offset is controlled by a dimension from the original geometry.  If you want the offset to change, you should edit that dimension.  If you want to break the offset, select the offset constraint and delete it.  It should never be "locked".  And yes, you can convert an offset to construction.

1. some strange things are not allowed. offset will not allow an offset of an offset. just blocks it. i can understand a complex shape, but a straight line?

That's just a current limitation of the sketch offset capability.  I won't go into the reasons, but the best way to get what you want is probably do another offset of the original curves at a larger distance.

1. even components that have been turned off get in the way of shapes i want to extrude and then it is really complicated to get to the shape i want to select to extrude.

Again, a screencast will help here.  If the component is turned off (meaning invisible, it's light bulb is off), it will not impact an Extrude at all.  

1. the project tool is very strange i cannot select an entire chain. have to select each link on its own. and if you make the mistake of accidental clicking the object instead of an edge it will immediately extrude the entire thing and it cannot be undone. have to delete the sketch.  

Yes, the Project command today is a one-by-one command.  A "Project chain" is a good idea, but has not yet been implemented.  However, you should absolutely be able to undo the projected curves.  Just select those curves and delete them.

Jeff

[gneF9AUM]

Hi,

Apologies, but I cant. just bitching about things I am battling with and probably don't know what I am doing yet.

I will start asking more specific questions on each topic as I hit them.

I have posted a question about snapping a circle to a vertex that I cannot get to work.

thanks 

[gneF9AUM]

Hi Jeff.

Thanks for the response.

1. Maybe its not fair for me yet to make a comment on this, and my experience with parametric design software is limited to what I am learning now, but that seems counter intuitive. The sketching part of fusion is so complex that it is making it painful. Again I am probably missing something here as no one else seems to be having a problem. I will keep trying, but coming from strong intuitive 2D like turbocad and autocad, I do not understand why you do not just build in the functionality. But ok there is probably some software design issues that is at play or maybe research has shown better ways. I will try and catch up.

For the offset issue I stop the sketch and start a new one. this is quite frustrating as I can sometimes snap onto entities and then suddenly I cannot. but again I fear this is more out of a lack of experience.

Components that get in the way: 

I will try a few of these again, but it is something that gets me often. ha ha need to figure out how to do a screen cast.

I have also noted this recently when using the section tool. it sections away a part of the drawing but not all. so tricky to work through the gaps to select a shape on a new oddly aligned plane.

Project tool:

Have you ever seen what happens when you accidently click on an object with hundreds of shapes on it. it is not pretty. undo is the only save. to be honest I have figured out that that helps sometimes and I just keep the sketch with all the info and edit and use it. but other times its still a problem

I will keep practicing and if I see something happening I will try getting a screen cast and repost.

thanks

[HughesTooling]

When using the project tool you could set your selection priorities to Edges, just remember to reset to All when you close the sketch.

Mark

[HughesTooling]

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@gneF9AUM wrote:

Hi Jeff.

Thanks for the response.

1. Maybe its not fair for me yet to make a comment on this, and my experience with parametric design software is limited to what I am learning now, but that seems counter intuitive. The sketching part of fusion is so complex that it is making it painful. Again I am probably missing something here as no one else seems to be having a problem. I will keep trying, but coming from strong intuitive 2D like turbocad and autocad, I do not understand why you do not just build in the functionality. But ok there is probably some software design issues that is at play or maybe research has shown better ways. I will try and catch up.

thanks

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The point of a history based modeler is you constrain and define everything so it's easy to edit. Yes there is a time overhead compared to dumb modelers like AutoCAD, although I think AutoCAD has parametric sketching now, the payoff comes when you need to edit the first sketch in a design to a new size and everything update in a few seconds rather the several hours with dumb modelers.

One tip is don't get too fussy drawing the profiles to start with, just quickly draw the outline about the right size and shape then add all the dimensions and constraints.

Mark

[jeff_strater]

@gneF9AUM,

I agree that getting started in parametric design and constraint-based sketching can seem complex when compared to Paint, or AutoCAD.  But, as @HughesTooling says, this is not just to confuse new users.  The idea really is to make your designs easier to go back and edit when you find that you didn't create the exact right size the first time.  Keep at it, and in time it will seem easy, I suspect.

Yes, Project will project entire faces if you click on them.  Sometimes this is useful, but if the face you select has a lot of edges, yeah, it will project a lot.  I guess I've just gotten used to picking only the edges I directly need into the sketch.  Mark's suggestion of turning off face selection when you are in the Project command can be useful.  Also, I do not like "autoproject edges on reference", which will project entities while drawing curves.  I always end up with too much projected into my sketches that way.  And projected geometry is not without cost:  It takes time to compute these projections when the sketch computes, and these relationships can be fragile with upstream edits.

Jeff

[gneF9AUM]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the tip. there are so many hidden tricks. 🙂

[gneF9AUM]

Hi Mark,

OK I understand that and I have seen that. You set parameters that you can later alter and the settings wil propagate through the entire design.

I think my mistake here is that I have watched a few videos and learned enough to get going and now I am trying to do actual work with it 🙂

I will have to go back to the start get a better understanding of how things fit together and best practices.

thanks

[gneF9AUM]

Hi Jeff,

I am importing sketches from two different DXF files. No the problem is that the sketches are not in line. So I know where a certain sketch entity is supposed to be in relation with my model, but I cannot move it to the required location. Even if I edit the sketch I cannot move components. So I projected it to the surface I needed it at, but again I cannot move the projections.

As I say I will see if I can find some more videos and make sure I understands how sketch fits together.

thanks

[HughesTooling]

Hi 

I put this in another post but it applies here as well.

Have you done the introductory tutorials HERE?

Then take a look at the main help HERE, and the hands on sketch tutorials.

My advice is give up on drawing in other software and importing. With practice you'll be able to sketch as quickly in Fusion with the added benefit of easy to edit and modify sketches and designs. If you'd drawn all the sketches in Fusion you'd be able to change and update the whole design to new sizes in seconds.

Mark

[TrippyLighting]

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@HughesTooling wrote:

My advice is give up on drawing in other software and importing. 

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I could not agree more.

If you have vector graphics are, or complicated text fonts, OK in that case importing .dxf or .svg might be the better option. But for everything else I'd use the builtin sketch tools.

[davebYYPCU]

The clue to moving imported sketch/s, or articles, is they get locked to Fusions Origin when landing.

You need to unlock the coincident constraints on the Origin.

You can't move projected lines in the current sketch, you have to do it in the original sketch, Catch 22, unless you Break Links to them.

Might help...