Simple Rigid Joint does not work on two Compnents

Simple Rigid Joint does not work on two Compnents

Anonymous
Not applicable
1,454 Views
17 Replies
Message 1 of 18

Simple Rigid Joint does not work on two Compnents

Anonymous
Not applicable

Screencast:

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/community/screencast/dbcac3d1-f6bd-417c-bb3b-10b16c916772

 

the joint just wont stay there...

even after i rebuilded both components.

0 Likes
1,455 Views
17 Replies
Replies (17)
Message 2 of 18

innovatenate
Autodesk Support
Autodesk Support

 

I couldn't help but notice the scaling in your video. The below link may help with that and make the icons and text in the ribbon a bit more proportional.

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/fusion-360/troubleshooting/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/Per...

 

As far as the joint, that behavior doesn't look correct. However, there may be a factor I'm missing from viewing the video. Would it be possible to share a public link of the design with me? This will enable me to better investigate the issue. If you prefer to keep the design private, feel free to send me a private message with the link.

 

I look forward to your reply.  Let us know if you have any questions!

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

 




Nathan Chandler
Principal Specialist
Message 3 of 18

Anonymous
Not applicable

After you create the rigid joint, try suppressing the Capture Position in the timeline. It looks like Fusion is getting confused between the 2 conflicting constraints and using the position from the rigid joint and orientation from the Capture Position.

Message 4 of 18

TrippyLighting
Consultant
Consultant

In your other thread I've recommended sharing the desing and how to do it.

It would not be too surprising if the assembly difficulties you're experienceing have to do with the fact that you've used linked components.

Based on what I've written in this thrread you may want to re-evaluate if using linked components is really necessary.


EESignature

Message 5 of 18

Anonymous
Not applicable

I missed the fact that they are linked components, but I wouldn't be surprised if that is at the heart of the problem. I have several designs where joints with linked components (imported from McMaster or parts4cad) are not editable. Fusion seems to have a bug that is not getting much attention.

 

@Anonymous - Unlike most other CAD software, Fusion is built around the idea of creating multiple components within a single modeling environment vs. creating many separate models, then bringing them together in an assembly environment. Fusion works best when you do things within this intended workflow and gets rather flaky when you don't.

 

Message 6 of 18

TrippyLighting
Consultant
Consultant

True. The problem is that this intended workflow is not explained in the materials in the Learn section, so it is hardly surprising that we have to repeat that so often her on the Forum 😕


EESignature

Message 7 of 18

fulcrumusa
Advocate
Advocate

@TrippyLighting I have to say that this "limitation" is feeling like a bug. What is the purpose of linked components when you have to actively limit their usage in order to avoid other problems, especially ones like this one. Granted, I don't really know what is causing this bug but it seems to violate Fusion's own rules. Either to joint origins move after "OK" is clicked or the joint origin reorient in relation to each other after "OK" is clicked. Both of these seem contrary to how joints are supposed to work.

0 Likes
Message 8 of 18

innovatenate
Autodesk Support
Autodesk Support

The capture position command and the joint command should not pose any conflict with one another. I agree the behavior doesn't look correct, but there could be other factors at play that I'm not foreseeing. If anyone has a sample file that exhibits this problem, it would help to the investigation to get a copy.

 

Feel free to private message me through the forum. I will be happy to take a close look at this.

 

One other thing I would be curious to find out, is if you start a new design and insert these two components, are there any difficulties creating the assembly joints in a new design?

 

Thanks,

 

 

 

 




Nathan Chandler
Principal Specialist
Message 9 of 18

Anonymous
Not applicable

Im really happy to get so much response here.

 

Just rebuilding the the without links.

 

Ill post it when im done (this is done really fast i think)

0 Likes
Message 10 of 18

Anonymous
Not applicable

Ok, im reassembling everything without linked Stuff...

 

http://a360.co/1RaBbYZ

 

still not done yet, but there are still some joints i cant make that ive made before

 

but way less errors until now

0 Likes
Message 11 of 18

Anonymous
Not applicable
0 Likes
Message 12 of 18

innovatenate
Autodesk Support
Autodesk Support

 

 

There are a lot of warnings in the timeline (red and yellow highlighted features). I suspect that these are the root cause of the issues you're experiencing. Ideally, you would have no features in the timeline highlighted at all. Generally, these are warnings that a feature has lost reference to the original, source geometry used to create it. 

 

I note that if I do a compute All (CTRL + B or Command + B), the timeline develops a lot of errors. I'm researching the root cause and solution, but I do not have an update at this time. I'll will follow up as soon as I have more information. 

 

Thanks,

 

 

 

 

 




Nathan Chandler
Principal Specialist
0 Likes
Message 13 of 18

TrippyLighting
Consultant
Consultant

Looking at this design I'd actually refactor the whole thing!

What I mean with refactor, is restructure and re-assemble. 

 

The browser tree is longer than fits my 27" monitor and too long to manage efficiently with too many itrrelevant parts to scan

This assembly should have not more than 3-6 main assemblies X-,Y,Z axis and another few auxillart ones.

 

All the fasteners and purchased parts in the main tree make this hard to read.

The joints folder contains an enormous amount of joints with generic names, which makes it really difficult to debug.

 

It is normal for a project under development to look like this as it's being developed, but you'd do yourself an enormous favor if you'd  spend 3-4 hours re-organizing this. You seem to have very consequently worked with Rule #1; Create a component and activate it. That should make this much easier without breaking too much stuff.

 


EESignature

Message 14 of 18

TrippyLighting
Consultant
Consultant

Also, while you can get away with it, this is not the best way to structure subassemblies:

Screen Shot 2016-05-19 at 7.42.45 PM.png

 

This is much easier to read:

 

  1. Bein 80x80
    1. Rechteck Profil 80x80
    2. Bein Abschlussplatte
    3. mutter_din_929-m16x2-sT

 


EESignature

0 Likes
Message 15 of 18

TrippyLighting
Consultant
Consultant

Actually looking at the design itself I have quite a few qestions concerning manufacturing and assembly. I understand that this is still in development but still.

My first job as an engineer 25 years ago was designing factory automation machinery eiter as a mechanical designer or later as an application engineer.

 

1. How are you going to get the profiles cut so that they really are going to assemble perpendicularly ? Are the ends going to be macnined ot is this going to be laser cut which should mosty take care of the issue ?

 

2. The guide rails for the linear bearing blocks are screwed directly onto the relatively thin-wall profile. A design practice I've often seen is that a piece of plate steel is intermittend-welded onto the profile and then milled over to get a very flat surface for assembling the rails.

 

3. The way it is designed right now you cannot get these 8 screws assembled, unless you laser cut or drill access holes for the screws to pass through. Even with access holes you'll be blind assembling these screws through an 80x80 profile and have to hit the thread in the "Querwelle"  pretty accurately for the screw to get a hold of it. BTW I'd call this an "Achse" not a "Welle" because they are going to be mostly static. The Querwellen are free to pivot and shift, mosly without any restraint. This will be a PITA (Pain In The ...) to assemble if you don;t take proper precaution 😉

Also, util the screws ar mosthy tightened the profiles will shift in all sorts of directions, not making assembly any easier.

 

Screen Shot 2016-05-19 at 8.43.49 PM.png

 


EESignature

0 Likes
Message 16 of 18

Anonymous
Not applicable

 

Wow, thank you for the feedback, this is more help than i got here in the company im working. My boss thought the construction would only take 2-3 weeks for a build ready project, sadly im in my 8. week now and a little frustrated.

(You should have seen my first few iterations)

 

I studied mechatronic engeneering, so construction was not a prior lecture... im on the wrong way sometimes and learning a lot here 🙂

 

to point 1:

They'll smooth the ends with their milling machine (tolerances in the drawing)

 

to point 2:

I reassembled the hole thing yesterday and just forgot to add the support rail with the threads inside of the profile, ill do that today. And ill try to clean up some stuff.

 

to point 3:

I think with the right assembly-order you can get easily thighten the screws, so the last part would be the motor-flange.

 

Welle -> Achse --- CHECK! 

0 Likes
Message 17 of 18

Anonymous
Not applicable
http://a360.co/27HobpK

i think this is better XD
0 Likes
Message 18 of 18

TrippyLighting
Consultant
Consultant

Yes, much  better structured.

 


EESignature