Screen redraw issue

[mcramblet]

I thought I should post this issue that I have, maybe around every other day. The modeling window of Fusion will just turn to a solid gray and nothing can be seen. The app is still functioning and models will open, I just can't see them. The screencast shows the issue. Let me know if more information is needed to help pinpoint the issue.

Thank-you.

[baribak]

Hi,

A few things to check out:

1. Ensure your video driver is current. Check the manufacturer's website for the latest drivers. Windows does not necessarily have the latest.
2. Has this always worked this way or did the behavior just start? From within Fusion go into the File menu choose View > reset to Default Layout.
3. Try deleting the files - NGlobalOptions.xml and NMachineSpecificOptions.xml. These can be found in c:\users\<yourusername>\appdata\roaming\autodesk\neutron platform\options
4. Set the graphics driver in the Fusion preferences to the DX9 driver. Go to the User Menu > Preferences > General > graphics Driver.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

[mcramblet]

@baribak

I posted this with the screencast but maybe should have placed it in the message, anyway here is an image of my settings:

I am using the latest driver approved by HP for my machine, released just after the latest nVidia update, in the last couple of weeks.

I've been using Fusion for about a month now and this, as far as I can remember, has been occurring.

I will follow suggestions 3 and 4 and see what happens.

Thank-you

[TrippyLighting]

The "professiona;l" graphics cards such as the Nvidia Quattros and AMD Fire GL cards are not the most ideal combination with Fusion 360.

thew "pro" graphics cards have software drivers that are optimized for open GL and on the Windows platform Fusion 360 uses Direct X.

That's an area where despite identical hardware the pro graphics cards unfortunately mostly are lacking.

[mcramblet]

Hmmm, that's too bad that it might not be the ideal card for Fusion 360. It works great everywhere else and seems to be ok in Fusion, minus my one issue.

[mcramblet]

I came across this info on the nVidia website:

NVIDIA® 3ds Max Performance Driver
The NVIDIA 3ds Max Performance Driver provides optimal Direct3D performance for Autodesk 3ds Max® 2011, 2010, and 2009 software with NVIDIA Quadro® and Quadro FX professional graphics solutions. Developed in close collaboration with Autodesk, the 3ds Max Performance Driver is a complimentary software driver for 3ds Max capable of delivering dramatic performance improvements (of up to 4X on some tests) over native Direct3D support or consumer graphics cards.

This is kind of old, nor does it appear to be a download option for my card, but it makes me wonder if chosing a 3ds Max setting from my nVidia control panel when using Fusion 360 might optimize my card performance. Does anyone have any knowledge of that?

[mcramblet]

I was hopeful after applying the suggested settings, but it's still happening. This particular occurrence happened simply from closing the data panel, as soon as I closed it and the screen resized, the redraw issue happened. the only thing that seems to stop it is to close Fusion and start it back up. Any other things to try?

[chengyun.yang]

From the phenomenon, I feel that this could be a GPU driver issue with the support of float RGB buffer. The float RGB buffer is needed to enable the HDR lighting and tone mapping which is the key to do the physical based material shading. 

That said, here are some things you might want to try:

1. Turn off various visual effects to see if it helps, especially the anti-aliasing. When the anti-aliasing is turned on, a lot of video memory could be allocated which could cause the float RGB buffer to fail to create. 

2. If you are using a high resolution monitor, try to reduce the Fusion window size to see if it helps. 

Thanks

Chengyun

Fusion Development Team

[mcramblet]

Just for reference, I'm using an Apple Cinema Display (at work) connected via Thunderbolt. The screen resolution is 2560 x 1440 and I do run Fusion "full screen", with the exception of the Window Task bar on the side.

I'll try the suggested settings and see what happens.

[mcramblet]

Running Fusion in a (much) smaller window (as opposed to full screen) doesn't seem to help. I just had the modeling window stop re-drawing and turn grey. I'll check the "Limit all effects..." box in the Grahpics Diagonstic panel and see what that does for me.

[mcramblet]

Maybe I should throw this out today and see if there are any thoughts:

In dealing with my redraw issue, I had a question; Since Autodesk has been one of the leaders in moving CAD from Open GL to Direct X, I would assume that there is a lot of experience in dealing with users with Quadro cards optimized for Open GL, moving to an application using Direct X. I also see that there has been Autodesk application specific drivers offered on the nividia website. Were any of these drivers geared towards trying to get the best possible Direct X performance from the Quardro cards? Are there any settings within the card control panel that might help get a little better performance from Quadro cards?

It's just a bummer having my fairly pricey Quadro card running in a second rate fashion, with Fusion 360.

[chengyun.yang]

Hi,

Running Fusion directly on DirectX API/Driver doesn't mean you will get the worse performance than running on OpenGL driver. The OpenGL drivers are “optimized” for various application use of OpenGL (i.e. choose your application from the driver control panel list) because OpenGL is not an optimized API … so there is lots of room for the GPU driver to “optimize” the usage pattern of different applications.

DirectX is a lower level API with stricter control over the GPU driver and the control is placed in the application and the way it uses the DirectX API … so if you use the DirectX API well, it will outperform OpenGL due to the application specific code that can drive the GPU in an optimized manner for your application and its data.  This was something the game developers really demanded of Microsoft so any game would have a “level platform” to use the GPU as opposed to OpenGL GPU drivers optimized for Quake and nobody else could ever get the same performance for their game.

The OpenGL GPU drivers have to “reverse engineer” the application use of OpenGL and try to make up for application inefficiency … instead of asking the application to use the API to the best way possible.

So … yes, the “pro” GPUs have “optimized” GPU drivers for OpenGL use by various applications … but that is to make up for the application inefficiency.

Now back to this specific redraw issue, did you see it after Fusion was running for a while or it happened right after Fusion was launched? And if you have a dual card(Intel + nVidia) in your machine, did you still see this problem if you switched to use Intel GPU? This can help us better understand the issue.

Thanks

Chengyun

Fusion Development Team

[mcramblet]

@chengyun.yang-

Thanks for providing the detailed explanation on how the gpu cards work with the two API systems. I'm glad to hear that my (very limited) understanding of the differences between the two was incorrect.

As far as the issues goes, it always happens after Fusion has been running. I don't believe that its ever happened at the start up of Fusion. It seems like it tends to happen when there are things going on that require some sort of large change in the display. It has happened when, for example, when I close the open data panel. The window resizes and, sometimes, everything goes grey. I've also had it happen when I have more than one document open and either switch between the windows or they are being opened or closed.

97% of my usage of Fusion is a work, where my HP 15" ZBook is connected to an Apple Cinema display via a Thunderbolt connection. This single Thundrerbolt connection also supplies a couple of USB connections and my Ethernet connection to the ZBook. My work setting is where I have the issue. The other 3% of Fusion usage is at home, using only the laptop display. I can't be absolutely sure, but I don't recall that I've had the issue when working from home, with just the laptop display. I might have to do some more testing to confirm this.

The ZBook has the Quadro 2100M video card, but also has integrated intel graphics. I've never specifically tried to disable the Quadro card and just run the integrated graphics. The card is running whenever I'm "plugged in", but switches to the intel when on battery. I haven't really used Fusion for very long, when running off the battery. I know I've never had the issue when running Fusion on the battery, but it's such a short amount of time and very limited in what I'm doing, that I don't think it provides any data in diagnosing the issue.

[mcramblet]

Talk about ironic timing; I had launched Fusion and it opened (full screen) to a blank document. I decided to reply to the post, before I started on any projects, so I switched to Firefox and left Fusion running in the background. When I posted my reply, I went back to Fusion, still with the blank document workspace, opened the closed data panel to load a project, and as the data panel opened, the work space went grey. I still opened the project, but when it loaded, I still had the solid grey workspace.

[chengyun.yang]

Hi,

I still suspect that this is a bug in the nVidia driver to support the float RBG buffer. If possible, can you please try to use Intel GPU in your laptop to see if this problem is gone? You can configure to always use Intel GPU in your nVidia control system or just disable the nVidia GPU in the device manager. This is just an experiment to help us to understand if this issue is specific to nVidia GPU on your laptop. 

Thanks

Chengyun

Fusion Development Team

[mcramblet]

Another "wrinkle" in my particular situation; it turns out that I do NOT have use of the intel integrated graphics. After much looking and not finding where I can control which gpu I'm using, I had to expand my search. The specs of the ZBook 15 lists both the intel integrated graphics and the option of a few different nivida quadro gpu options, but I couldn't find any "multi-gpu" settings anywhere, including in the power settings. It turns out that my laptop is forced to only use the quadro card because my laptop also has the HP "Dream Color" display. When this particular display is part of the laptop build, the integrated intel gpu is disabled and the discrete graphics card is used exclusively. No option to manually switch gpu's, even running on battery uses the quadro card. I'm not sure if it would be possible (or advisable) to try and see if I could force the use of the intel graphics in the BIOS. I may have to contact HP and see if that's an option.

[mcramblet]

The answer to te question of if the integrated graphics can be enabled, the answer is "no". It's not just something that is turned off in the BIOS, it's truly just not an option to switch gpu's if the laptop has the HP Dream Color display.

Based on this, I don't have the option of testing the issue by switching to the intel graphics, I'm stuck using only the quadro 2100m card.

[mcramblet]

Another bit of information, as I slowly figure out this issue. I worked from home over the weekend and used Fusion for many hours and I never once had the re-draw issue when using the laptop display. I had a lot of switching between documents, opening and closing the data panel, minimizing Fusion, etc., all things that generally bring about the problem. I think it's pretty safe to say that the problem only happens when I'm at work, connected to the Apple Cinema Display.

One variable is safe to eliminate.

[chengyun.yang]

If you go to Windows device manager, you will see two display adapters if you have a dual GPU card machine. And usually you can disable one of them to make sure the other one to be used. I am not sure if this is the case for your machine. But if you haven't tried this, probably you can give it a shot.

Thanks

Chengyun

[mcramblet]

Just an update to this issue;

I actually haven't had this issue happen in Fusion since the big May 2016 update. I've been running full screen with no re-draw issues whatsoever. I'm not sure, but it certainly seems as though something in the update may have fixed whatever was going on with Fusion on my particular machine.

By the way, I was correct that the integrated graphics have been disabled by HP on all ZBook models that have the DreamColor display. There is no option or possibility to use the Intel integrated graphics, even though they still exist on the ZBooks with that particular display.