"Share your file" - No.

[ryder.febo]

I have seen this time and time again in these help topics. Is it just not possible for the experts in here to understand a situation without NEEDING to see the file? Is Fusion360 just that haphazard that it is impossible to provide a solution based on text?

As an engineer who has actually worked on lots of proprietary projects, it's insane to me that random strangers on the internet seem to think they are entitled to potentially trade secret files in exchange for telling someone a simple fix.

Do the people in this Forum just not understand what proprietary means? Are none of you actual engineers in the industry who understand the consequences of just handing out stuff like that? Are you willing to sign enforceable NDA's that expose you to serious financial consequences just for the sake of helping someone with a freaking joint?

Seeing this constantly makes me think Fusion360 and the Community at large don't see this as ever being a real contender in the professional space and will always be relegated to the hobbyist market.

If I call support for Solidworks I'm either just not asked for a model and just asked for screen grabs or details, or if I DO have to hand over a model it's under a blanket NDA.

It's insane here. Stop asking for files first.

[jeff_strater]

Yes, everyone here "understands what proprietary means".  However, in 90% of cases, the question is very data-specific, and cannot be reproduced from just a text description (or even text, images, and video).  Even if it can, you are asking people to spend their own time trying to reproduce a problem that you probably already have sitting right in front of you.  If your issue is one that cannot be easily reproduced with a subset of the design, or with a simplified version that is not proprietary, then you cannot reasonably expect someone to help you.  So, no, you should not expect people to "stop asking for files".

I have found that the people who come here to help others do so with the best intentions, using their own time and resources.  Insulting them is not being a good participant in this community.  Please use a professional tone of voice in future posts.

[ryder.febo]

When it's your "Expert Elite Members" being dismissive without a file, that shows the professionalism of the community you are have created. So, when your "Experts" act like experts, then I'll change my tone.

This was in response to a simple question asked by a different user about how to create a joint between the center of a cylinder to the edge face of a plate. That SHOULD NOT require you to send files to anyone. Yet, no file == passive aggressiveness from one of your top "experts". I've ran into it, and every single reply asks for it and just doesn't budge unless they do. This is the community you have fostered and it's tiring.

[TrippyLighting]

1. If you are working on projects under NDA and cannot share a data set, you can always get official phone support. That requires a paid subscription. I cannot provide a number as I never had the need to call.  
2. I have been an engineer for over 30 years and have used CAD since college. All of the projects I have ever worked on professionally are under NDA. I cannot share professional projects on this forum either. It is my responsibility to acquire the needed skill set, so I don't have to ask for help on a forum.
3. Almost everyone who regularly helps here on the forum  (less than 10) does this voluntarily. Having a data set to analyze is much faster and often highlights other issues that need to be addressed before the actual symptom experienced by the user can be addressed. In fact, that's about 90% of the cases here on the forum. I have over 24,000 posts on this forum and have looked at thousands of other users' designs. I have a pretty good grasp of the problems posted here!

[TheCADWhisperer]

@ryder.febo 

First of all, this is peer-to-peer support, not official Autodesk support. (although many 'deskers volunteer their time here) 

As a counter to your non-professional claim, I have participated in the equivalent SolidWorks and Creo (Pro/e) forums for 20 yrs or more, and I can tell that most questions there request user files as well.  (I have more that 50,000 posts over the years.)

Quite often (I would guess more than a thousand times) when I suggest user reproduce the issue in a non-proprietary file, they come back and say, "OK, I figured it out in the process of trying to reproduce."

And finally, why are you using CAD rather than merely writing paragraphs to specify a design?  Could it be because the 3D model conveys more information and in a more efficient manner than mere words?

>>Find a local partner that understands your unique business and industry needs. <<

[ryder.febo]

1. ...
2. So, as an engineer you have never used an online resource to gain knowledge by those more knowledgeable than you? You just divined the information into your brain through F360 tutorials and YouTube?
3. Exactly, you have 24,000 posts and have a pretty good grasp of the problems, yet you're still unable to offer a bit of advice without immediately demanding a file and then being passive aggressive when they call you on that it isn't really a file-based issue that Fusion360 has horrible handling for tangent joints? Or that you can't do a distance mate the same as you can in SW and you have to create a sketch in order to do a rigid joint where you need it? Seems counterintuitive to be as skilled as you are and unable to quickly and efficiently express that knowledge.

@ryder.febo - this post has been edited due to Community Rules & Etiquette violation

[ryder.febo]

1. Same issue there with any forum. If you're as skilled as you claim you can help someone with CAD issues with just a couple of screen grabs unless the file is legitimately not reacting in the expected way. But a file request should be after that is discovered. Not the first demand before any help is even offered.

2. You didn't help them in this case, and if this is a "quite often" thing then that should be your advice. But also, you should be able to recognize the standard pitfalls of a new CAD user enough to at least suggest what might be wrong.

3. I have literally helped people many times using nothing more than text and a screen grab. I have explained entire projects, fixtures, issues, resolutions, and any manner of technical data to people with just text and a few screen grabs. If you can't communicate technical information in that way that is a problem with your soft skill set. Furthermore, what do you think an SOW is? Literally paragraphs to specify a design. Do you just get handed a fully complete CAD model and then get told "Uhh, just make this, but again." No. This whole freaking argument is catastrophically bad.

[TheCADWhisperer]

---

@ryder.febo wrote:

... that is a problem with your soft skill set. 

---

@ryder.febo 

Enjoy your CAD pursuits.

[ryder.febo]

CSWP on Solidworks with 10 years' experience and many many hours of mentoring those who are trying to learn. Without being passive aggressive at them. My CAD pursuits are more than fine. This community should learn to be more professional if F360 is to ever be taken seriously. Especially considering their software is still at a point where it can't even do inferred relations off of the same part.

[TheCADWhisperer]

@ryder.febo 

I have been a CSWP since 2007. (The old comprehensive 8-hr test.)

I taught for 30 years.

Had about 20 students per year pass the CSWP for many years.

Had several students pass CSWE.

Five students earn gold medal at SkillsUSA over the years.

Been an invited guest at both SolidWorks and Autodesk headquarters at their expense and met with the CEOs.

Numerous teaching awards.

I recommend Autodesk Inventor Professional rather than Fusion as the MCAD equivalent of SolidWorks.

[ryder.febo]

All of that is just more in my argument that you shouldn't have to ask for a file out of the gate. You're a professor at Penn State. You should literally know all the pitfalls of first year cad students or those with less than 5 years' experience. You. Should. Not. Need. A. File. To offer basic advice.

You should also know the effect being passive-aggressive has on a student/learner. You should know all of this without question. Pull yourself way out of your own space and remember what it was like to be a first-year student learning this stuff and then do better than whoever that teacher was. You should not be defending the way this community operates.

While I only had one semester as an adjunct, I would have never treated my students in the way TrippyLightning goes about things. Unless I wanted to ensure my students didn't learn anything. And even then, I was able to give valuable feedback to them through emails with them just describing the problem with a screen grab.

The more you and Trippy talk, the more I hope you realize what you are doing and how much you are undermining your own accomplishments by skating straight to "show me your file" without even an attempt to offer a solution first.

And I'll stick with SW as it's my wheelhouse and very widely used in industry. But the other part of all this that gets to me on the whole is how F360 is attempting to position itself as a serious CAD contender. Meanwhile.... this.

@ryder.febo - this post has been edited due to Community Rules & Etiquette violation

[TrippyLighting]

@ryder.febo wrote:

...
2. So, as an engineer you have never used an online resource to gain knowledge by those more knowledgeable than you? You just divined the information into your brain through F360 tutorials and YouTube?

---

Of course I have! I did not suggest you don't come to the forum to seek help and advice. I suggested not to use NDA materials for it!

---

@ryder.febo wrote:

...
3. Exactly, you have 24,000 posts and have a pretty good grasp of the problems, yet you're still unable to offer a bit of advice without immediately demanding a file ...

---

I am perfectly able to offer that advice, and sometimes, I do provide help with just text and screenshots. I have explained the reason for requesting a data set in my first post. If you cannot agree with that, then I am afraid we'll have to agree to disagree. Fine by me!

Again, I do this voluntarily. I am under no obligation to help anyone with anything here on this forum!

I do this because I enjoy the interactions where users and I can learn from them. 

As such, this is my last post in this thread 😉

---

@ryder.febo wrote:

... it isn't really a file-based issue that Fusion360 has **** handling for tangent joints? Or that you can't do a distance mate the same as you can in SW and you have to create a sketch in order to do a rigid joint where you need it? 

---

Aha, now we are getting to the bottom of it. If you find that SolidWorks works better for you and your work, continue to use it. Fusion is, in many aspects, no competition for SolidWorks. A much more comparable CAD application is Autodesk Inventor, which has traditional geometric mates AND Fusion-like joints.

By the time Fusion is going to be a contender for the toolset available in Inventor now, I'll be happily retired 😉

---

@ryder.febo wrote:

... and then being passive aggressive when they call you on that ...

---

I understand you disagree with my assessment and statements, but I don't see why that would make me passive-aggressive.

[ryder.febo]

I know you say this is your last post. So cool. But:

"It is my responsibility to acquire the needed skill set, so I don't have to ask for help on a forum."
"Of course I have! I did not suggest you don't come to the forum to seek help and advice."
As a professional, make up your mind?

"Having a data set to analyze is much faster and often highlights other issues that need to be addressed before the actual symptom experienced by the user can be addressed."
The screen grab of you was from someone asking basically if they can distance mate a cylinder from an edge. Then you weren't nice about it and then proceeded to answer the question without a file. Which is my entire issue in the first place. Skip the intermediate step of being belittling and just offer the advice you claim to know.

"Again, I do this voluntarily. I am under no obligation to help anyone with anything here on this forum!"
Correct, so if you're going to be a passive aggressive just save it. No one pays you to be here, and no one is asking specifically for your advice, so get off your high horse.

"Aha, now we are getting to the bottom of it."
Nope. That's an entirely separate issue I have with Autodesk and their marketing of this platform. The bottom of it is everything else about the people who "help" being condescending. It's the same energy I see time and time again in other maker space environments.  If we're in agreement that F360 is just for makers or low-end users, then cool. Say that out of the gate and then admit to the shortcomings of the software. It'll be quicker to just tell someone they can't do this one thing because the software is limited and they need to add a bunch of reference geometry.

@ryder.febo - this post has been edited due to Community Rules & Etiquette violation

[Warmingup1953]

I have learnt a lot both in these Autodesk forums and other internet-based groups... Facebook, Reddit Discord etc....and of late I (think I) have been able to assist some that are a few yards behind me on the path to Fusion Enlightenment. Sometimes words are enough for a question....but if a picture is, to paraphrase an ancient Greek philosopher is worth a thousand words...then a full-screen screenshot, Timeline and tree is worth a million.....and now to get to your gripe the Fusion file, warts and all, is worth at least a trillion!...it's Fusion's "Pale Blue dot".

If the asker is unable, unwilling or simply reticent to share that file then those seeking to help are doing so with a mere subset of the data needed to help.

[wersy]

Have you ever helped someone without seeing the file, e.g. in SolidWorks or another CAD program?

[ryder.febo]

Yes. A lot. You don't need a file to diagnose 95% of problems new users or learning users are having. The only people who need a file are tech support because the persons file is just absolutely not acting the way it should.

This asking for a file up front is just being lazy, and the being passive-aggressive about it when that's not offered is just unneeded.

For SW I can help people just off of screen grabs of the feature tree, sketch, or dialogue box. None of which require me to have the file in hand.

Feature tree tells the entire story of their design and how they are going about it. Do they have external references? Are they using weird features to get results? Is their flow unorganized and sloppy? These are all things that can key into what the core problem might be.

A sketch tells even more of the story. Is their sketch not acting the way it should? Well... let me see those relations. Do you have a tangent or horizontal/vertical mate that was added automatically throwing you off? Is your sketch open? Are you SURE your lines are tangent to the circle and there is no tail that needs to be trimmed or moved? Is your sketch under defined? Is your sketch using external mates from a top-down approach? Are they trying to do a sweep using construction lines?

Dialogue boxes. This should just be self-explanatory. Did they choose the right options? Oh, your loft is all jacked up, well, did you choose points that are on the same side and make sense if you were to connect them? Are you using guide curves? Are you lofting a circle? Cuz that's a whole other thing on how you go about than they probably are.

I have walked people through entire flow sims just using the Snipping tool. Its. Not. Hard.

Fusion360 is way less optimized and way more chaotic I'll give you that. The timeline system is a waking nightmare of inefficiency. But you can still see what the user has done up to the point of them having a problem with a screen grab or two. And most of the questions are going to be "How do I do X?" , or "I'm trying to do X but it's doing Y?" You don't need the file to see that.

If people want to be helpful, then be helpful and don't be passive-aggressive about it. They're not owed a single thing for being on this forum and offering help. And they don't owe it to people to be here and help. Big time "I'm the smartest guy at my maker space" energy when they act the way they do.

[wersy]

I am active in this forum for 6 years now.
I can tell you that in almost all cases the user simply does not know how to use the program correctly.
Because of the way Fusion is structured, you can't compare it with any other CAD program.

Sketches are often not informative enough. Without a timeline, it is usually quite impossible to help.
Just try once to help others - without seeing the file.
Then I'm sure you'll change your mind.