Keeping Joint origins visible

[brad9126]

I have a design where I'm establishing many many Joint Origins. I'm doing them all at the same time on many different components to get them all to group together in the top level Timeline. After I establish the Joint Origins, I want to go back and create joints using them, again, to get them all to organize in the Timeline (Thanks Autodesk for not letting me put all my relationships in one nice neat, easy to find place!!!).

The problem that is driving me absolutely bonkers is that the Joint Origins seem to turn themselves off (visibility wise). When they do this I have to go digging through mountains of folders in the Browser (Again...thanks Autodesk for not letting me put all my relationships in one nice neat, easy to find place!!!)

Does anybody have a solution for me, or am I just stuck with endless hunting and clicking in the Browser every time I want to use one of my Origins in a Joint?

Thanks in advance,

Brad

[g-andresen]

Hi,

By design, joint origins are always linked to a single component and are always visible unless you have disabled them.

günther

[davebYYPCU]

I have a design where I'm establishing many many Joint Origins.

Why?  What workflow would need this?

[brad9126]

Unfortunately, this is not the case for me.

[g-andresen]

Hi,

---

@brad9126  schrieb:

Unfortunately, this is not the case for me.

---

1. What?

2. Can you show it in a screencast and upload a sample file?

günther

[brad9126]

In this particular situation, this is my workflow:

All components have been created, dragged and the positions captured, to a position in the design close to where they will live after being joined rigidly.

I created 8 Joint Origins in total, all one after the other without any other steps in between.

I do this to keep them all together, easy to find in the Top Level Timeline. This helps me to find them easier later on if/when I want to edit them. Unfortunately, you cannot turn on/off visibility from the Timeline.

First I created 4 Origins on 2 Hinges (2 Origins per hinge, Each Origin on each of the hinge's 2 halves which are sub components of the hinges). There are already Revolute joints on each hinge.

Next I created 4 Origins on 4 different components (at each location where a hinge needs to be joined, or at least where I can reference their final position from)

Next I established the actual joints (all Rigid Joints) that will position the hinges & components together. At this point, most of the Joint Origins are not visible any more. I did not turn visibility off, visibility went off completely on it's own, without me doing it.

This is where my inquiry on this forum comes in. I have to now go digging through my very big Browser tree, opening many folders, several layers deep to find each of these Origins so they can be seen (accessed) when making rigid joints.

You might ask "why use joint origins when you can simply join these items?"

For me, and the components I design (sometimes very small, with many vertex points very close together), if I simply try to join the components together using Joints, this is how it goes:

When choosing the Snap locations for either component, more often than not, each component will spin, even if both glyphs were oriented on the same plane (I never spin or rotate my components when re-capturing their position to bring them closer to their final jointed location). Clicking the Flip button almost never corrects this.

I then try to choose another glyph or re-choose the glyph. Sometimes this works, but more often than not, it does not.

After much fiddling around I can get my components oriented correctly using the Alignment fields in the Joint dialog (Angle, X, Y, Z).

Later on in the design, if I want to reposition 2 components, going into that joint and adjusting Angle, X, Y or Z usually produces some very unpredictable results.

On the other hand, if I make a joint using 2 Origins, adjusting positions later in the design is a snap and is always very logical and predictable.

Sorry for the long, drawn out response. I hope it all makes sense

If you (or anyone) has suggestions on how to fix my Origin visibility issue OR a better work flow, I'm all ears and would appreciate it very much.

Thanks,

Brad

[g-andresen]

Hi,

1. Joint origins should only be used if it is difficult or cumbersome to select a joint for an assembly using the existing connection positions.

2. Hinges are created as functional external assemblies that can be connected directly to the cabinet and door within the design.

3. To provide specific guidance on the procedure, an analysis of the existing design is required.

Please upload an F3D file for this purpose.

günther

[brad9126]

Hello Gunther,

I am using joint origins specifically because "it is difficult or cumbersome to select a joint for an assembly using the existing connection positions". In my case, being a hobbyist who uses Fusion maybe a couple times a month on average, to say finding existing joint connections is "difficult or cumbersome" is really an understatement.

Because I am a hobbyist who, from session to session, does not always remember smaller nuances or critical details about the software, I literally wrote my own instruction manual on how to accomplish certain tasks that are common to my needs. I also use Chat GPT frequently to figure out how to do things that make my workflow much faster (Chat GPT is actually a massive time saver, but... is not always right and needs to be taken with a grain of salt).

With that being said, the way I choose to do certain tasks is not always the fastest or the most efficient way, but is generally a way that I can clearly document for myself and that always give exact, non-cumbersome results - thus, I like to use Joint Origins.

With my workflow and tactics explained, I would still love to know if there is a way to more quickly make Joint Origins visible when I need them.

My latest workaround is to find the origin in the timeline, right click, find in browser, mark it visible. Not perfect, certainly not fast, but it is reliable and works every time.

I've tried to attach my file but it is a .f3z file that the forum won't accept. Can I email you my .f3z file directly?

Once you get my file:

You will find about 20 joint origins. When you look at any of them in the browser you will find:

Some are marked not visible by way of the 'Joint Origins' folder being marked not visible - this was done by me

Some are marked not visible directly with the eyeball of the joint itself - this was done by Fusion, not by me

Thanks,

Brad

[davebYYPCU]

Neither of us responding have ever needed to use Joint origins to assemble a physical hinge model to the stationary object.

paraphrasing - too many snap points to select, (converted STL bodies?) and Chat GPT, makes the mind boggle.

No I can’t help with visibility, without the file or an example file, pictures of the browser/ timeline.

I think I have used a Joint origin twice in 8 years.  They are inefficient, duplicative, and mostly unnecessary for normal workflows.

To attach a Joint origin in a component, you have to select the same snap point as a joint would use.

Spoiler, I don’t understand the new Assembly constraints, needing 3 for every joint is also inefficient.

Happy to help….

[brad9126]

Hello Dave,

As I said to Gunther, I totally get that my workflow and use of Joint Origins is not the fastest, most efficient way to establish joints. It's just the way I choose to do it that gives me the most robust, predictable, editable results. But this is not what I'm asking advice on. I simply want to know: is there a way to 'toggle' visibility of these features more easily than I have found?

Or

Is it possible that I've done something in my design that is messing up Fusion and making these origins 'self adjust' the visibility?

I don't know, I'm just a guy who is continually learning and asking advice on this forum.

Attached is a screen shot showing my design showing as much of the Browser and Timeline as possible in one screenshot.

I'm happy to share the file but I need to know how to do it. The forum won't accept the .f3z file my design exports.

Thanks,

Brad

[jhackney1972]

You will need to ZIP the F3Z file before you try and attach it.

[brad9126]

Here ya go.

You will find about 20 joint origins. When you look at any of them in the browser you will find:

Some are marked not visible by way of the 'Joint Origins' folder being marked not visible - this was done by me

Some are marked not visible directly with the eyeball of the joint itself - this was done by Fusion, not by me

Thanks,

Brad

[davebYYPCU]

Can check your file at a later time, 

So the visibility - for identical components, if you hide one, they will all be hidden, it is a function of identical components.

Might help…..

[jhackney1972]

I would use Selection Sets for the process of changing the visibility of Joint Origins.  You can use the Select Filter to create the original selection set and from then on simple added to the Selection Set as you go along.  The video will show the process.

[davebYYPCU]

Earlier I said (before review of the file)

So the visibility - for identical components, if you hide one, they will all be hidden, it is a function of identical components.

Scratch that, your file is so unusual, it is not applicable to your inquiry.  (You don't have copied hinge assemblies)

Your vertical hinges are creating interference when mounted like this, where the piano hinge is not 

Instead of Joint origins to an edge end point, why not a screw hole in both components?

[brad9126]

Hi John,

You had my hopes up there  for a minute. I went through my browser and made sure all my origins were visible. Then I ran into a problem. After I filtered my selections to Joint Origins and drew a window around my entire design (like in your video), I found that this does not select Origins that are behind bodies (components).

I proved this by rotating my model to different angles and each time I drew the window around my model I selected different origins, the ones that were not hidden from the camera view.

I suppose I could go through the browser tree and turn off visibility of all the components or bodies so none of the origins were hidden behind anything when I draw my window, however then there's another problem that idea.

When I add more origins, since there is no way to add to selection sets, only update them, I would have to do that whole process of hiding bodies all over again.

Please let me know if I'm missing something.

Thanks,

Brad

[brad9126]

Hi Dave,

On the vertical hinges, I'm curious what you mean by 'interference' and why you think that? Later in the design, they both mount to a "prop" that swings on that vertical axis and they seem to operate just fine.

Why I would not use the hinge screw holes to locate these hinges, because these hinges are just generic downloads from McMaster, (that have the same overall dimensions) not the actual hinges I'm going to use. The screw holes in the model hinge are not the same pattern or placement as the actual hinges I'm going to use, so the reference value is null.

I am going to use the Fusion drawings to locate the hinge on the actual part once I cut it and then transfer hole locations directly from my hinge upon assembly.

In other words, I have no reason to put the hinge mounting holes in my model, so why spend the time to do it.

Hope that all makes sense.

Thanks,

Brad

[davebYYPCU]

Obviously, this is the wrong hinge, so the interference will not matter.

Flush mounted hinge will be more appropriate - just saying.

The hinge pin is tangent to the material boards, and the hinge plates.

Why are you even making hinges? Fusion will animate the swinging holding ear boards without them.

Might help....

[jhackney1972]

You missed a check box in the Select Filter dialog box.  The Select Through option normally should never be unchecked.  This is  allow your select of features hidden behind components.

[brad9126]

Ahh... I see what you see now. Yes, a flush hinge would be more appropriate. I knew this going in and just wanted to have a hinge that 'dimensionally' represented the hinges I have on hand to complete the model view.

Regarding your comment 

"The hinge pin is tangent to the material boards, and the hinge plates.

Why are you even making hinges? Fusion will animate the swinging holding ear boards without them."

Are you saying I could just make a Revolute between the two components and leave the hinge out of the picture?

Thanks for your guidance. I've been using Fusion for a couple years now and continue to learn (and will continue to learn for a very long time, I'm sure!)

Brad