Getting started with constraints and handles in sketches

[Anonymous]

I'm a long time Autocad user and have a good grasp of the the Civil 3D environment. I'm doing some mechanical stuff lately and am trying Fusion 360. It a very different approach.

Is there a tutorial or video that explains how handles, constraints, selection/operation orders etc?

For instance, how do I rotate an object around a fixed point? In Autocad I select the object, then the center of rotation and then type in the angle of rotation - I can't seem to figure out how to do that in Fusion. What do the little dots that appear on the end of a line when I pass my cursor over it mean? How come only one end lights up? How do I constrain one end and not the other? When I use the right click grabbers, how do I go from a cartesian move to a polar move? The "Constraints" page in the help has nothing on it about how to apply constraints, and absolutely nothing to say about Fix/Unfix.

This stuff is all second nature in Autocad but not here...

Thanks for the help,

HanswurstNC

[Anonymous]

that works for this particular use but I'd really like to know how to select a sketch object, copy it, and rotate the copy about some user defined point of rotation. Its no big deal to recreate a line from scratch, but if its a collection of objects (sketch objects in particular but also bodies and components) I'd really rather make a copy of it.

Its a really simple thing to do in autocad and a central way that I go about drawing things, but I just cannot seem to figure out how to do it in Fusion 360. In addition to rotating the object about a point, autocad also gives you the options of rotating the object itself while it is being rotated about the axis. HOW? PLEEZ!

I'm also struggling with trimming or extending sketch lines. Fusion doesn't seem capable of using these tools on sketch lines (curves only? that's what the tool tip says when you select one of the commands). For instance, on the example above of a circle with a line from the center to some point beyond the circle's diameter, how do I trim the line to the circle? Again, very simple in autocad but (so far) unworkable for me in Fusion.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Roland

I didn't spot that there was a second set of pattern commands in the sketch menu. I can't seem to get them to be active though. I select my sketch line and go to the Sketch drop down and both pattern commands are greyed out. Any ideas?

Ok, I figure out how to make the commands active (have to have a sketch active, duh), but now it wont allow me to select my sketch line when I run the pattern command - the tool tip is asking for a sketch curves (again, not lines. why?)

Thanks

Hanswurst

[Anonymous]

When you say you can’t trim a line, are you just assuming you can’t - because the tool tip says, “Select curve section to trim”? Despite the use of the term “curve,” you can indeed trim a line segment. When you hover the pointer on a line segment between intersections with other entities, the segment should turn red, and you can click to delete it. One problem I’ve had with trimming was where I had tangent arcs. Sometimes I could trim part of an arc at the point of tangency with another arc and sometimes I couldn’t. I still haven’t figured out why.

“...but now it wont allow me to select my sketch line when I run the pattern command - the tool tip is asking for a sketch curves (again, not lines. why?)”

Again, you can ignore the “curves” nomenclature in the tool tip. When I have the Objects pointer active in the Circular Pattern pop-up, I am able to pick lines.

Speaking of Autocad, I really wish there were a static spot where the program would always tell me what action is required next, sort of like the old command line.

[Anonymous]

Nyet. but I started a clean drawing and tried a very simple version and it worked fine. I think some of my problem is that I'm trying use/edit/add to a solidworks file (*.sldprt) that I imported. I created a compenent out of the import but I'm not sure if Fusion has given it all of the attributes I need, even though I can select faces and hidden lines.

I'm with you on the command line. I never thought I'd miss it but I still find myself wanting to type in commands and lost within the commands. The tool tip does some of that but yo have to leave it idle in space for several seconds before it gives you a prompt.

[Oceanconcepts]

Hanswurst,

Apologies if I'm missing the issue here in taking a wild guess, but when you are having these problems- like the circular pattern command being grayed out, or not being able to use the Trim tool- are you actually editing the sketch, or are you just selecting the lines in the Model or some other workspace?  In order to use any of these sketch tools you need to first right-mouse on the sketch in the Browser, and select Edit Sketch.  

You can select sketch lines at any time for extrudes, sweeps, trimming, etc., but won't be able to use the sketch tools unless you are in Edit Sketch mode. If you are used to, as I was, a program where you can just select lines at any time and use the appropriate tools, that could be confusing.

[Anonymous]

Ron,

Attached is an image of where I stand. I have a disk and I want to put holes in the disc to create a hub. I need two rows of holes ina radial pattern, totalling 360 holes (1 per deg). The rows are staggered in their radial layout, with the rows to have their centerlines at .075" from the outer face at the outer edge.

I created the disk by drawing concentric circles in sketch mode at strategic radii, then I extruded the faces on both sides to get the shape I wanted. I then started a new sketch and, keeping the same plane of origin, draw a line from the center of the circles to the outer edge of the disc at 90 deg. Then I tried to make another line, again starting at the center of the circles, and used the boxes to give it a radius of 5" and an angle of 89 deg. I get the lock to show in both boxes, right click and accept. The line disappears, every time. When I try to use the Model>Sketch>Create Circular Pattern, it gives me a tool tip that says, "Select Sketch Curves to Pattern". I've tried selecting the line directly and in the browser. It appears to be selected but when I use the little settings button to change the selection to the center of rotation, it drops the selection of the line.

Once I've created the second line at a 1 deg radial difference, I want to move each line along the disk's axis; one by 0.075" and the other by 0.175" and use them to create a path to extrude holes through the disc. After creating the two holes, I want to make a circular pattern with them so there are 360.

Did I pick too much of a challenge to learn with?

Thanks Ron,

Hanswurst

[Oceanconcepts]

I'm far from an expert in sketching, but I tried what I think you are trying to do, and it works for me. I know if I can do it it's not too much of a challenge, so there must be something else going on.  

I'm able to draw lines from a central point of origin, specify the angle and length, then left click (not right?) with the mouse to confirm.   The mouse click part may not be obvious from the UI- but just hitting enter is not enough. Is the solid part visibility on? I'm not seeing anything disappear, so I'm at a loss. I can also select the line and create a radial pattern like spokes. It does seem as if this could be all done within one sketch, or perhaps if you wanted to create sketches along different planes of the part to make extruding the holes easier, depending on where they were located. 

I tried a radial pattern like you are trying to achieve with both lines and circles, and got it to work.  This does seem like a task that should take only a few minutes to complete. I'm confused by your saying: "I've tried selecting the line directly and in the browser." Individual sketch curves don't appear in the browser, just whole sketches. So I don't understand what you are selecting. 

Are you seeing the Circular pattern dialog come up like this?

And are you able to select with the Objects tool (top arrow) the circle or line (or other sketch objects) you want for the pattern? 

Can you then, after selecting the Center Point tool (lower arrow) select a center point? At what point in the process are you seeing the selection disappear? 

I used the text entry to specify the number of repeats, and I see that the ability to suppress instances is there. 

I'm a little unclear about your last paragraph, what you mean by "along the disk's axis". Around the axis? Or are you just shortening the lines, or lengthening them? I don't understand "making a path to extrude holes".  But it does seem to me that if you could position and extrude two holes it would be easy to create the kind of pattern you describe in the modeling environment.  Are you meaning to define a circular sketch path to make a circular pattern in the model environment? That shouldn't be necessary. I'm envisioning something like dividing plates?

I hope this is helpful, if this is not working right for you we may need to get someone from Autodesk to see if there is some specific bug you are running into.

[Anonymous]

I'm losing it here Ron. I tried to reply (typed it out three times) and include a couple of screen shots. I'm getting an error message that I can't post more than 100,000 characters - I assume its the images. When I paste the images into MS Word first and convert them to png's it won't accept them either.

[Anonymous]

This is what I'm trying to draw:

[Anonymous]

The reason I am trying to create two lines, 1 degree apart radially and offset 0.10" axially, is so that I can find the position of the first two holes I want to create through the disc. Once I have the first two holes created I want to use the circular pattern tool to create 360 of them.

When I try to sketch the second line (first one is no problem), I have the bodies turned off (light bulb off in the broswer) and the sketch in 2D. I start at the center of the circle and drag outward, but instead of selecting the outer circle, I type in a radius, hit tab and then type in an angle. I've tried 1 degree about 15 times and larger angles several times. When box entry boxes have locks showing, I right click and accept. The new line disappears, every time. I think I've created about 50 of them in some alternate universe that I lack the necessary secret handshake to view. - UPDATE; left click first, then right click to accept - thanks Ron!

When I try the using circular pattern tool to create the second line I can't seem to keep the sketched line selected. I pick it - either in the drawing or in the browser - and get it to highlight, then I select Model>Sketch>Create Circular Pattern. I get this:

I am given the choice of Full, Angle, and Symmetric. I select Angle but I get no prompt or dialog asking for the angle between instances, the number of instances or the total inclusive angle. I use the settings to change from Object to Center Point and the line deselects and I can't get the program to pick the center of the circle. Its like the command gets truncated or something. I'm not sure why I don't see the complete dialog box for this.

It takes a good deal of time for me to type all this and you to read and respond - any chance I could convince you to spend 10 minutes with me on a Gotomeeting?

thanks Ron,

Hanswurst

[Anonymous]

So now I'm trying to use thole hole tool. I have my lines and I construct a Plane trangent to face at point and move it away from the face of the disk. So now I have a line defining my hole path that intersects the construction plane. The hole tool asks me to select a point, geometric feature or plane. If I select the plane, the hole goes in the right direction (radially) but I can't get the hole's center to snap to the end of the line when I move it. If I select the end of the line as the starting point for the hole, it goes perpedicular to the direction I want (see below - the screen shot doesn't show the red hole but does show the white manipulator arrow in the direction of the hole). Reversing the direction in the pull down doesn't change the plane.

thoughts?

thanks.

[Oceanconcepts]

Ok, seeing the picture it's much clearer, I was misunderstanding the orientation of your holes. 

I may be slightly ahead of you in understanding the Fusion interface, but not by much. I'm using this exchange to learn- happy to chat, but I caution I'm really not an expert.   I do think I see some possibilities to look at, though. You are working in the parametric environment, I was working in direct modeling, and there seem to be some interface differences between those environments. One of them is that just right clicking on a sketch in the browser doesn't seem to give you the Edit Sketch menu unless you have first selected to Create a New Base Feature. So unless you do that you can't really work on lines in a previously made sketch, and features in an older sketch (like the center of the circle) won't be available in a new sketch unless you project them to the current sketch. 

It sounds/ looks as if you are not getting the full dialog I pictured, but just the truncated version- described to me as the Expert version. I have both showing here.

 

The options are all in the tiny one, but you need to know what you are looking for and want to do. Is this maybe an option in Fusion preferences? I have every help option under general checked, and I always see these larger floating dialogs- they are much clearer if you don't know the program. 

The angle option in that dialog doesn't mean what you are thinking- it's a mode, as is clearer in the larger dialog. It asks you to specify a total angle and a number of instances, but nowhere does it allow you to set an angle between instances, except as a result of the other two parameters. You can input formulas, though. 

But I think it should not be hard to make the part you are showing.

Here is a suggestion- what I would try to get your part. Bearing in mind the above caution re. my expertise- this could be a really screwy workflow.

I would first model the base cylindrical shape. I would create a center axis construction line. I would create a construction plane tangent to the edge of the cylindrical shape at an arbitrary point. 

I would create a sketch on that plane, and project both the cylindrical edge and the center axis. Stop the sketch, and create a cylinder the size I want the hole to be at the point of intersection of the cylindrical edge and the center axis, as a new body, using the sketch plane/ construction plane as a base reference. This would create a cylinder perpendicular to the center axis of the part. 

 I would then use the Move tool to position this body the correct distance away from the flat surface of the cylinder for the first row of holes. I would then select this body in the browser, Copy, deselect it, Paste, and when the Move dialog comes up move it away the .10", reorient the Move tool to the center point of the large cylindrical shape, and rotate the new body the 1°- or whatever you needed it to be. I would then have two cylinders that could be used in a boolean subtraction (Combine- Cut in Fusion language) to make a pair of holes. Those holes could then be selected and the Circular pattern tool in the Create menu could be used to duplicate them around the part.  There are other workflows I could think of (using two sketches offset by .10", and sweep along path to make the holes, for instance), but this seems like it uses Fusion's strengths. 

Hope this helps.

Just read you last post. yes, Holes, cylinders, etc. in Fusion want a planar reference, and to do what you are trying you would need to create a sketch point on that plane to snap the center of the hole to. It won't snap to the intersection at the plane.

[Anonymous]

Very helpful, thanks Ron.

Parametric mode is something I hadn't given any consideration to - diving into the lit and trying to understand it now.

Lots more to digest in your comments. I'll get back after I've done so. Thanks again Ron.

I'm still pounding my head against the wall but its starting to hurt less... 😉

[Anonymous]

Turning off the history definitely freed some things up.

When I make a plane tangent to the outside edge of the cylinder at any given angle, how do I then make a point on that plane that is on the line of tangency with the cylinder and projects normally back to the cylinder's axis? I can sketch a circle and extrude it, or I can use the cylinder tool from the plane but I need to have a starting point in order to make sure they project back to the cylinder's axis.

I've tried making a sketch line from the axis normal to my new tangent plane and then using the Construct Point at Edge and Plane tool but it won't snap to the intersection of my sketch line and the plane. Is there a way to get the two to talk to each other?

I still don't think I'm seeing the full dialog boxes on all the commands. I'm using the 90 day trial version - is there less functionality to the trial version?

thanks,

Hanswurst

[Oceanconcepts]

"When I make a plane tangent to the outside edge of the cylinder at any given angle, how do I then make a point on that plane that is on the line of tangency with the cylinder and projects normally back to the cylinder's axis? "

That's why I suggested creating a center axis construction line, and projecting (sketch- project tool) both that axis and the edge outline of the disc onto a sketch placed on the tangent plane. You can place a sketch point at their intersection (or anywhere along the projected axis line), and any cylinder drawn centered at that point and normal to the construction plane/ sketch plane will necessarily be normal to the center axis of the disc. 

Fusion doesn't see the intersection points of planes and sketch lines, but if you use the project tool you can create sketch points, and those are recognized as snap points for creating geometry. 

Don't know about the dialog boxes- have you looked at Fusion Preferences to see if all options are checked?  It would be harder to learn the program without them. It might be worth posting a specific question about dialog box visibility on this forum, or searching the Help. They have always shown up for me. it's not a 90 day trial issue, the 90 day trial is what everyone is on.

[Anonymous]

I have one hole made, in the location I want it. I did as you said and created a tangent plane at a point, projected the cylinder axis and flat face of the cylinder onto the new face and used them to locate and create the cylinder. I chose the cut option in creating the cylinder, now I have a hole in the disc that I can select and see in the browser as an extrusion. If I right click on the hole extrusion in the browser I do not have a copy option. How do I use the extrusion to create a body (where I can right click to copy per your instructions)?

Hanswurst

[Oceanconcepts]

My suggestion was to create the cylinder as a new body, copy it, and position the copy using the Move tool- which will come up automatically when you paste a new copy- to where you want the 2nd row of holes to begin.  So you will have two cylinders, each at one beginning hole position.  Then use the Modify- Combine- Cut tool to make the holes.  If you select cut when you are making the cylinder initially you won't have the body to copy- though it will make a perfectly nice hole. 

You could also, from where you are now, make another cylinder (new body) just as you did the first one, and reposition it using the Move tool (the .10" down, then reorienting the move tool to the center axis and rotating the 1º). This would accomplish the same thing. You may need to turn the sketch visibility back on to create the cylinder if it is turned off. Then Modify- Combine- Cut to make the 2nd hole.  If you aren't familiar with reorienting in the Move tool (and some others), it's the little orthographic icon in the floating palette. This lets you reposition the locus of movement- select the check when it's where you want it, in your case the center axis of the disc. 

Once you have the first two holes, If you then select the Create- Pattern- Circular tool, select the holes in the drawing (making sure to select both the walls and the bottom, you can just use the marquee selection), and select the center axis of the disc as the center of rotation, you can duplicate them around the perimeter however many times you need. Fusion is brilliant when it comes to duplicating and patterning features, even very complex ones. 

[Anonymous · Accepted solution]

Hi Ron. Sorry to take so long to get back.

I'm slowly starting to get it. I've managed to recreate the wheel from scratch. It'd probably only take me 20 minutes now - instead of days...

Thanks very much for all of your help. It's been huge.

Hanswurst