Fitting flat head screws to countersinks

[kb9ydn]

I'm looking for a way to join a screw to a countersunk hole such that the screw stays in contact with the countersink if the countersink depth changes.  Join doesn't seem to have any options to do this that I can find.  I could use a simple offset and just fudge it to be close but that's seems pretty lame.  Does anyone have any more clever ideas?

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[daniel_lyall]

That's where a paramater would come in, if you could pull it of a imported bolt, What I don't think you can unless you draw it in fusion, But you would still have to use a hole wizard. That's one places driven dimensions will help.

[Beyondforce]

@kb9ydn, you were right, the example wasn't 100% optimal to your situation. I'm hoping this time, it's what you are looking for:

Cheers / Ben
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[mrm1018]

I appreciate the attempt to help but all this is just too complicated. 

When a countersink screw is installed in a countersunk hole the two conical surfaces touch. It's just how these screws work. Point is, Fusion is missing a mate/joint that simply allows the user to pick the two conical surfaces and you're done...such is the case with other more mature CAD packages. 

[Beyondforce]

You are right, Fusion is not perfect but they are doing their best! Comparing Fusion to other cad systems is wrong and doesn't help.
The idea station is there for a reason and it works. When something doesn't work or is missing, we develop a workaround, some are good and some less good.
Don't wast your time been frustrated or angry, it is what it is. If someone else will come up with a better solution, that will be great, I like to learn new things.

Sorry I couldn't help you more!

Ben.

[mrm1018]

Not sure why you think I'm angry. Don't take things so personal. I'm not bashing anyone...Fusion is just missing so pretty basic stuff still. I hope they continue to develop it.

[daniel_lyall]

There is a 3 step way to edit the counter sinks position.

What you do is measure the bolts length then - the shoulder just the very end of it if it's a 50 mm bolt it's 49.5 mm long, write that down. now go do the joint the first component is the bolt put the joint on the end of it, then put the next joint in on the outside of the bolt hole then offset the holes joint position by the measured length of the bolt.

to double check the bolts depth is correct measure from the shoulder of the bolt to the face of the counter sink, If it's 0 it's gold if there is a distances add that to the offset.

Now to edit swipe the timeline back to the countersink hole do a offset face on the counter sink faces this makes it look the same as drilling the countersink deeper, then move the timeline back to the end

measure the distances from the bolt to the faces off the countersink write that down swipe the timeline back to the joint add the measurement to the offset and done.

Same if you added a bigger bolt.

It makes it look like it would with a big countersink cutter, if it needed a flat side then the counter sink well that's far too much work.

And yes this is a full bore work around that is quite ugly.

If you wont a vid let me know otherwise it's all good.

It was just a fun exercise for me.

[kb9ydn]

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@mrm1018 wrote:

I appreciate the attempt to help but all this is just too complicated. 

When a countersink screw is installed in a countersunk hole the two conical surfaces touch. It's just how these screws work. Point is, Fusion is missing a mate/joint that simply allows the user to pick the two conical surfaces and you're done...such is the case with other more mature CAD packages. 

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This is the conclusion I've reached for the time being.  I've tried every method suggested and still the easiest/fastest way is to simply offset the screw-to-countersink joint a little bit so that the screw is fully seated.  It does take a bit of fussing but if you put the display in wireframe mode it's easy enough to see so that it's not too painful to do.  I wouldn't want to have to do this very many times but at least it's possible to do.

Hopefully a more streamlined way to do this will be added to Fusion in the future.

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[PhilProcarioJr]

@kb9ydn

I know of a way to do this but you have to create a simple sketch for both the screw and the chamfer. I understand that having a joint or mate for conical surfaces would be the best solution but for now here is a work around. As long as you use sketches for the chamfered holes and the screw this works every time. I will post the screencast as soon as it is uploaded along with the file.

I understand this is not ideal but it works.

[PhilProcarioJr]

@kb9ydn

[mrm1018]

Thanks @PhilProcarioJr, I appreciate your help.

I download most of my fasteners from McMaster, so they are blob models.  In this case I'd have to add a sketch to the underside of the flat head for this to work.

All in all for me, the easiest solution is just the offset, and I'll need to be mindful of changing it if I tweak the countersink.  I'll do this until we get proper mating functionality for this situation.

Thanks again!

[HughesTooling]

If you make the hole the same size as the small diameter of the screw's countersink you can use the joint you have, then press pull the hole to the correct size with offset type set to New Offset.

Mark 

[PhilProcarioJr]

@HughesTooling

Your right Mark but the whole point in this thread was if the hole was larger then the screw and being able to do it without figuring out the offset distance. Just having it auto update.

I do wish we had a conic joint option..... 

[kb9ydn]

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@PhilProcarioJr wrote:

@HughesTooling

Your right Mark but the whole point in this thread was if the hole was larger then the screw and being able to do it without figuring out the offset distance. Just having it auto update.

I do wish we had a conic joint option..... 

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Exactly!  I see you picked up on matching the points of the cones.  That's exactly what I was thinking needed to be done but couldn't think of a simple way to do it.  I also get fasteners from McMaster so while adding sketches to find the cone point can be done, it's still not ideal.  Offsetting the joint still seems the fastest method, and as long as you don't change the diameter of the clearance hole the screw will still follow the countersink if it changes.

Being able to use theoretical cone vertices for joints would be a great addition to the ideastation if it hasn't already been suggested.  I'll have to add it if someone hasn't already done so.

C|

[PhilProcarioJr]

@kb9ydn

Ideally the easiest way to solve this so that it could be used throughout Fusion with everything (IE modeling, joints, surfaces, sketching..so on) is to make the point of a conic surface added to all snapping options.....

[TrippyLighting]

I am sure you're going to hate me for this, but could you be convinced to add this to the Idea Station ?

[kb9ydn]

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@TrippyLighting wrote:

I am sure you're going to hate me for this, but could you be convinced to add this to the Idea Station ?

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When I get the chance I'll do it and include Phil's input above.  (Probably sometime tomorrow)

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[kb9ydn]

Idea added to ideastation.

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/ideastation-request-a-feature-or/allow-snapping-to-imaginary-cone-ver...

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[TrippyLighting]

Voted on!

[SEIZMICdesign]

SolidWorks Hole wizard really is awesome.

[HughesTooling]

I put this workaround in another post. It uses 2 hole features one to setup the joint using the small diameter of the countersink on a second to make the clearance hole. No need for joint origins and extra sketches.

Copied from the other thread.

Here's a workaround using 2 hole features. The first hole sets up the countersink through hole to the smallest size of the cone on the screw so you can use it for the joint. After setting up the screws using joints use a second hole feature to make the clearance hole. With all the joints setup you can edit the countersink diameter or the clearance hole and the screws will stay seated in the countersink. 

Mark