Betreff: Edit single component after applying pattern (or parent component as whole)

jakub3

Hello!

I'm trying to add holes to the sides of my token holder (2 holes for pins on both sides of the lid). The Body component is made using "pattern on path" (4x cell component). I'd expect that changing something after the pattern is applied (being after the pattern on timeline) won't affect individual components that are part of the pattern, but it does. In contrast to this, the "mirror" function behaves how I would expect; if I add a feature to the component that is being mirrored after it was mirrored, the new feature won't be mirrored. Is this a bug with patterns, or am I missing something?

What are my options here? I would like to edit the whole "Body" component as a whole once it is created via the pattern to, for example, round the outer edges.

This is my first 3D model ever, so I might just be missing the obvious way to do this...any help is appreciated 🙂 Thanks!

g-andresen

Hi,

Which instance(s) should be changed and which not?

günther

jakub3

Hi, ideally I don't want to touch "the instances" (the 4 "Cell" components making up the body), but the "Body" component as a whole. In this specific example I want to add holes just to the left and right sides of the entire "Body" component.

I know I could Combine all bodies inside "Cell" component, make pattern out of those and then Combine them again to form one large body, which I could then edit freely...but that doesn't seem like a right way. I want to learn a proper way to design things like these in general 🙂

TrippyLighting

@jakub3 wrote:

This is my first 3D model ever, so I might just be missing the obvious way to do this...any help is appreciated 🙂 Thanks!

No bugs here, but Pattern and Mirror definitely are implemented differently!

If you :

1. Copy/Paste (not Copy/Paste-New!) a component

2. Pattern a component

That creates a component instance. There is only one dataset for the component and all the instances reference that data set. If you change anything in any of the instances that changes the one data set and as such all instances.

So if you need multiples of exactly he same geometry , then instances will keep the memory footprint of your design low.

Mirroring a component creates a second dataset that contains the copied and mirrored geometry of the original component. It does not, for example, copy over all the sketches, that were used to create the geometry of the original component.

Changes you make to the original component geometry after the mirroring feature in the timeline will not propagate to the mirrored component. If you want them to also appear in the mirrored component, you need to roll back the timeline to before the mirror feature.

If you make changes to the mirrored component, they will not appear in the original component.

TrippyLighting

~~Please share your model. It is easier and quicker to for us to help as we don't have to recreate models.~~

~~Export your design as a .f3d and attach it to a post.~~ Scratch that 😉

jakub3

Hi, thanks for the explanation! It makes sense then why the mirror and pattern (which I guess is just "parametrized Copy-Paste") actions behave differently. So...what can I do to treat the result of the pattern (the parent "Body" component" made out of 4x "Cell" components) as yet another component/body "as a whole" so that I can iteratively continue modeling it? Or is this approach not applicable? I didn't want to end up with the whole design being "a single large body in one component" since I though this is an anti-pattern, so I split it into components.

TrippyLighting

Looking at your description(s) and the model, what is it you want to do with the end result?

Let's say you want to machine this, you would need a solid block of material to mill all the pockets into. That is also how I would model this, as it allows you to pattern features.

If you 3D print the end result as one piece, then the slicer could potentially take care of combining all the individual cell bodies, but I'd argue that is not good modeling practice!

jakub3

Yeah I want to 3D print. As this is my first 3D model, this is also my first 3D print...so I wouldn't know the best practices 😄 But I already printed this version of the model and it worked perfectly.

I don't know how else I would model this...I tried to make it parametric from the start, so I can just change the number of cells via single parameter and the whole model adjusts.

TrippyLighting

I basically modeled a big block and cutouts. It is much simpler to model as you don't need to think about combining geometry after patterning. Instead of patterning components or bodies , which you would have to combine manually, patterning timeline features will automatically combine/cut the pockets when patterning.

Also, it is preferred that you model fillets using the solid modeling fillet instead of the sketch in the sketch.

It is less sketching work, creates a usually more robust sketch and uses fewer computational resources.

I added a calls_Z parameter. If you change cells_X and cells_Z , you will change the number of cells in the X and Z axis:

jakub3

Thanks for the updated model 🙂 I tried to play with it to understand what you did (cool trick with the circular pattern, much easier than the planes/axes/mirror thing I did), but I think I've found a bug 😄 I can't edit the pattern...am I doing something wrong? In the video I show that I can create the same pattern, but I'm not able to edit it (and select the same features as you originaly did).

(view in My Videos)

Other than that, the model isn't quite "what I wanted" (I'm missing the inner walls), but I'm sure I could fix that. But, generally speaking, you made the model as "one big body", which I though is not the way these things should be done (regarding the Rule #1 etc); I thought that you are generally supposed to split things into small components like I've had in the original model.

Is this approach wrong and should I forgo the "inner components" and just model everything as one large body, as you did? If not...how would I do what I wanted to do? Or is my way of splitting the model into smaller components (the "Cell"s in my case) just going too overboard with the components, and the "one big body" is the way?

TrippyLighting

You can add and subtract features to/from the pattern by holding down the CTRL/CMD (Windows/macOS) key and then selecting the timeline items you want to add or remove from the pattern.

If you want to print one object with all the cavities for the tokens, then that needs to be one solid body and should be modeled as such. In that case, using a component pattern doesn't simplify anything, as the design I attached shows.

If you want to end up with 4 x 4 individual objects you need to glue together, those might better be individual components.

If you have questions about the sense or nonsense of Rule #1, I'd be happy answer them. As the inventor of that rule I should be in a good position to do so 😉

jakub3

You can add and subtract features to/from the pattern by holding down the CTRL

Oh yeah, that works! It's confusing that for the new pattern I don't need to hold it, but when I edit the existing pattern I do...thanks 🙂

In that case, using a component pattern doesn't simplify anything, as the design I attached shows.

Alright...I wasn't going for "the simple way", but the "correct way"; I guess that's a professional deformation from being a software developer 😄 In this case my goal is "a single solid print", I just thought that you are generally supposed to split even the "single solid parts" into components to have some kind of hierarchy...I guess that's not the case 🙂

As the inventor of that rule...

Ha, nice, what an honor! Sorry, completely missed your name there when I was reading it 🙂

I initially wanted to put "everything" into components to have separate timelines for each part (so that it's a little less complicated when editing "the basic stuff" vs "the high level things" built with those components).

I think there is only one thing that is still not answered: is it possible to somehow join/merge multiple components to act as a single component/body? Since you didn't mention it, and I couldn't find any answer anywhere...I guess this is simply not possible? I was basically looking for a Solid->Modify->Combine function that would work on components (but it only works on bodies).

TrippyLighting

@jakub3 wrote:

I think there is only one thing that is still not answered: is it possible to somehow join/merge multiple components to act as a single component/body? Since you didn't mention it, and I couldn't find any answer anywhere...I guess this is simply not possible? I was basically looking for a Solid->Modify->Combine function that would work on components (but it only works on bodies).

That WAS indeed possible and a valid workflow, but it must have changed relatively recently 😕

I've asked the developers through another channel and hope for some feedback.