Difficulties working with Fasteners

[ipmcc]

The "Fasteners" feature has a lot going for it. It also seems to have a number of issues. I'm hoping someone can tell me how I'm screwing up, or at last commiserate. 

The issue that has been most frustrating for me is this one:

If I right-click on a fastener, and select "Find in Browser", it takes me to the root of the "Fasteners" node in the browser. The hashmark-underline appears under the Fasteners node, but NOT under the node of the individual fastener itself. Between bolts, washers, and nuts, I have dozens fasteners in this component, so the fact that the hashmark-underline doesn't appear under any specific fastener makes it difficult to find the individual/specific fastener I'm looking for at any given moment.

Other times it takes me to the "Joints" node of the browser. This is even less useful, but I also recognize that I'm probably somehow clicking in the wrong place when it does this.

Putting fasteners in my designs creates a bevy of Joints, which is cool. However it doesn't seem to get the joints quite right. Even simply adding motion limits to these joints also seems to fails. 

Let me show you what I'm talking about. In the attached video, observe the following (in spite of my poor screen cap abilities):

• 00:14 - I've created an extrusion, and put an M3 sized hole into it.
• 00:18 - I've added an M3 hex cap bolt.
• 00:32 - I've added a matching washer. 2 rigid joints have been created. I guess I can see how those joints are helpful.
• 00:38 - I've right-clicked on Rigid 2 and asked it to show me the components. Note that while the Fasteners folder has the hash/underline, the individual components do not. The joint "Rigid 2" links the Washer to the Root component (the plate) -- huh? Not to the bolt? OK... let's see what happens. "Rigid 3" links the Bolt to the washer. OK. The joints seem... OK... so far. Not exactly how I would've done it, but functionally equivalent I suppose.
• 00:44 - 00:59 - I select the washer fastener and right-click "Find in Browser". The things that are hash/underlined in the browser are the two Joints NOT the Washer component itself. I try this again with the Bolt component. Again, the Joints are highlighted, the Bolt is not.
• 1:00 - Here, I add a second washer on the bottom of the plate. OK, the alignment works out, but now I've got the joints "Planar 4" and "Slider 5". This combo of joints doesn't really make sense for a washer, and notably, this pair of joints is DIFFERENT from those that were created when I created the first washer. Also note that there is no Motion Link created between these two joints, so while the intent appears to be to create a "nut" relationship between this second washer and the bolt (i.e. where turning one thing causes the other to move up and down), but again it didn't really do that (i.e. no motion link.) Also, if that were the goal, why a combo of Planar and Slider as opposed to Cylindrical? Ideally with a self-referencing motion link?
• 1:05 - 1:55 - I spend the next minute or so noodling around trying to understand these joints, to no avail.
• 1:57 - 2:26 - I try to add Motion Limits to the "Slider 5" joint. This causes an error that I don't understand.
• 2:24 - I undo my motion limit change. The error goes away... but obviously so do my motion limits.
• 2:26-2:31 - I bring in the nut. Same story as the washer with the Planar + Slider, but no Motion Link.
• 2:44 - I try to make my own motion link. It doesn't seem to work.
• 3:08, 3:20 - More examples of the fasteners not being highlighted in the browser.

I really love the alignment/auto-placement features of Fasteners. 

Obviously, inserting fasteners from McMaster is more work initially, because you don't have the benefits that come with the Fasteners feature, but I think given the state of issues like these, it'll probably continue to be my primary workflow, especially for components that have a lot of fasteners. It's sad, really, because the more fasteners in a component, the more benefit you get from the Fasteners features, but it very much seems that  they'll be tougher to work with as time/effort goers on.

Edit to add: I recreated this part using fasteners from McMaster, and manually created joints. It took about twice as long to create, but it worked right, and I can use the UI for finding things in the browser.

Does anyone have any hot tips around working with Fasteners? Thanks!

Regards,

Ian

[Drewpan]

Hi,

What is the purpose of the design that has all of these fasteners? Not all designs

actually require you to model the fasteners, especially McM-Carr fasteners that

are actually designed so you can order a box of 1000 from them.

When I say what is the purpose, what I mean is what is it being used for? Who

needs this detail? If you are in the Marketing Department then you want all of

this stuff so you can create a pretty brochure with all of the various parts in

an exploded view drawing. If you are in Fabrication then you just need to know

how many bolts, nuts and washers to order, you are not going to actually count

them. You might need them in Assembly but a competent assembler will know

that each bolt will have associated washers and nuts so again the design does

not actually need all the bolts etc shown. In the Testing Department, all they

need to know is that there is a Rigid Joint in that location for their simulations

and not the specific type of fastener.

All I am suggesting is that maybe including all of this detail in your Design is

not necessary unless the user of the Design File actually needs the information.

I am not saying what you are doing is wrong but simply that there may be a

more efficient way to do your Design. There is a lot of time to be saved if you

don't actually put all of these fasteners into the Design and include all of the

various Joints if all you are going to do is order a box of 1000 and put it together.

Cheers

Andrew

[aleksei_ovsienko]

@Drewpan For one, I always place all fasteners because I want to be able to automatically generate the BOM and then push it into ERP by API. Counting fasteners manually is incredibly tedious. It's much simpler to just be diligent, and place all fasteners there even if there are hundreds. The other reason would be - to know the mass. When you've got several hundred bolts and washers in the project, it all adds up to quite a few kilos of weight that you want to be aware of. Same goes for volume if lets say you need to know the free air volume inside something or for a multitude of other reasons. You also may want to produce somewhat animated work instructions or exploded views for work instructions. And ofcourse another reason is producing sexy renders for promotional purposes. 

@ipmcc All valid points. It is mighty annoying I can't look up fasteners in browser properly. What I also can't wait to see (and they are on it I believe) is the ability to actually add my own fasteners to the library utilizing the same auto-placement feature. Currently it's not available and any custom fastener needs to be placed the old fashioned way. And incidentally I have hundreds. And they really clog up the browser. 
A neat trick I discovered is that you can actually rename and edit the fasteners you place with Insert Fastener feature. So what I do is I rename them and assign them company part numbers. This way I get a clean BOM later that can be pushed into ERP with all the correct part numbers. And even more - if you or someone else on the team then at some point needs the same fastener and inserts it from Fusion - it will already have the part number assigned and saved. This is pretty cool since maintaining stock and part numbering of fasteners has been the bane of our existence for quite a while. Eventually the most used types will all be renamed and you will never have to bother with them again.

[Roman_Vesely · Accepted solution]

Hi Ian,

 unfortunately find in browser for fasteners instances is a known issue and we are working on the fix.

WRT: Joints.

they are designed to assembly Fasteners (Screws/Bolts, Nut, Washers & Rivets) together also with corresponding components/bodies with holes and reaction to changes in size(s). 

Best regards

 Roman

[Drewpan]

Hi @aleksei_ovsienko 

Thanks for that answer, you have raised some very valid points that I had not considered.

I am still learning to be a Junior Engineer and so information like this helps me to see why

people do things in certain ways. Certainly mass and volume can be critical in some designs.

I certainly understand the need for the glossy brochure and assembly instructions. I wonder

however if under some circumstances it may be easier to simply count the Joints and

calculating the mass from the known mass of a sample and then simply ordering a box of

them. It seems to me that you are spending a great deal of time putting in a joint for the

components and then adding a joint for each Bolt,two washers and a nut. Sure, fusion will

automagically count them for the BOM but it is a lot of work.

My experience has been mainly design and testing so I typically ignore the hardware and

test the components. I know there is a bolt washers and a nut. I know how to calculate if

they will be suitable for a specific joint and take that into account for my calculations. As

long as I can calculate such things as shear strength of the joint I know a suitable bolt

that is properly torqued up will hold with the required safety factor.

Thanks again. I will add this to my toolbox and try to take it into account in my own designs.

Cheers

Andrew

[Closed-Loop-Bot]

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[ipmcc]

Nope, sorry. Not fixed. I just upgraded to Fusion 2605.0.97 arm64 [Native] and 'Find in Browser' still doesn't work for components placed using "Insert Fastener...". Even worse, there appears to be a regression: it seems like you can't even expand the Fasteners folder in the Browser any more. 😞 See attached video.

[Roman_Vesely]

Hi Ian,
 actually in your video above you didn't select the fastener but only face on this fastener. If you want to select the fastener in the scene you have to double-click on it. You can easily check if you have selected fastener by related options "Insert Similar Fastener" , "Edit Fastener" & "Replace Fastener".
For some reason it's not working on the first call of "Find in browser" but is necessary to expand the "Fasteners" browser node and/or save document, after that I'm able to see my inserted fasteners and Fasteners browser node is auto-expanded to be visible selected fasteners. 
See my video from the same  Fusion  2605.0.97 build : 

Regards

 Roman

[ipmcc]

Roman,

I'm sorry to say it, but it still doesn't seem to work as expected. See attached video.

0:00-0:23: I'm inserting, and placing a washer.

0:25: I click a face on the cube, right click, and select "Find in Browser", and as expected, it expands the browser to show 'Body 1', and the hashmarks/underlines are there all the way down the hierarchy. My point here is that selecting a face, right-click -> "Find in Browser" does work for things other than fasteners.

0:32: I select a face on the fastener, right click, and select "Find in Browser". As you described, nothing happens. Even the Fasteners folder isn't highlighted (which I notice is a deviation from the behavior described above, with the cube.) 

0:36: I double click the fastener to make sure it's fully selected. You can see the "Washer DIN..." text in the lower right corner of the window to confirm. The "Fasteners" folder appears with  hashmark/underlines, but it is not opened. OK, I guess maybe that's not the end of the world, even though "Find in Browser" having selected a face on the cube expands the browser all the way down to reveal "Body 1".

0:38: With the now-fully-selected washer, I right click and select "Find in Browser".

0:43: The "Fasteners" folder appears with the hashmarks/underlines, but when expanded, the washer's item is not shown with hashmarks/underlines. I also had to manually expand that folder in the browser, whereas for the cube face, it opened automatically.

My expectation is that Fasteners should behave like any other components/bodies/sketches/etc. If you tell me that this expectation is not correct and that this is 'expected behavior' I'll stop complaining (and keep using fasteners from McMaster), but this behavior is different from how other entities in Fusion behave, so unless you can explain to me why this ought to be different, I stand by my initial diagnosis that this does not behave as expected.

Ian

[Roman_Vesely]

Hi Ian,
based on what we can reproduce on our side ...
 it looks that there is still an issue when we call 1st time on the document "Find in browser" and it starts to work once the "Fasteners" browser node has been expanded manually. We will reopen our case FUS-215463 an will look at it again, how we can fix it. 

Thank you for your feedback, it's highly appreciated.

Regards

 Roman

[ipmcc]

I, likewise, thank you and your colleagues for being responsive to these concerns. All the best!

-Ian