Design Advice?

[Anonymous]

I have been experimenting with different ways to layout a project, and I am not really happy with either of them; so I am turning to the forums for advice.

Imagine I am designing an open box (flat side down).  The design has 4 walls, and a bottom surface (no top).  Each of the 4 walls will have a series of something on them (a combination of extrusions and cuts) that are unique to that side and need to be duplicated multiple times.

Originally I was working with a single sketch and a single plane.  I would rotate the sides, and use patterns where I could; however there is a bug with extrusions and rotated objects, also I can only pattern if something is directly on a plane.

So I tried single (or multiple) sketches with a plane per-side, offset from 0x0 to the parameter for the length and width of the box, but some of the extrusions have to come from inside the box, so that means creating another plane on the inside (past the walls) so I can use patterns for them.  This starts to become tedious and I have to constrain/dimension many planes so that if I change the box size, everything adjusts with it. 

If it helps to visualize, imagine the patterns are nut traps (inside of the box) with a through hole for a bolt.

Am I over thinking this?  Is there a feature that I am overlooking that would simplify this type of design?

Note: I am not sure if this makes a difference in the design concepts but everything is parameterized that can be.

[TrippyLighting]

1. Share your design (export as .f3d and attach to post) or at least a screenshot

2. What bug ? 

[Anonymous]

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@TrippyLighting wrote:

1. Share your design (export as .f3d and attach to post) or at least a screenshot

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I don't have a design.  I am asking how I would approach such a design.  I have dozens of discarded attempts that were not far enough along to be useful as an example because I was not happy with each approach and wondered if I was thinking about it wrong.

The idea, as I said is an open box (a hollow square with no top)  and I need what amounts to patterned extrusions on each side, sometimes on the inside of the shell, sometimes on the outside.  This isn't a specific project, not yet, its trying to find a good paradigm for this type of project.

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@TrippyLighting wrote:

2. What bug ? 

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Rotating an object can cause it to invert the normal used for extrusion and it will extrude in the opposite direction.  I posted a topic about it, and someone else figured out what was actually going on.  If you are curious here is a link to the screen capture https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/fusion-360-support/inverted-extrude/m-p/9562884/highlight/true#M90968

[TheCADWhisperer]

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@Anonymous wrote:

I don't have a design. 

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I recommend that you create a design.

It doesn't have to be finished.

It doesn't have to be polished.

Just do it best you can and Attach here and someone will help you improve technique.

Whoever expends that time to offer you help is giving you their time, not just the time for your project, but the days, months, years of time in the form of experience leading up to  this day.  An hour of work or whatever it takes - whip up an example.

[Anonymous]

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@TheCADWhisperer wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

I don't have a design. 

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I recommend that you create a design.

It doesn't have to be finished.

It doesn't have to be polished.

Just do it best you can and Attach here and someone will help you improve technique.

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I am sorry, that is not something I have any intention of doing.  I am not looking for critique.  I am just wondering if there is a simple, common approach that I am overlooking.  If no one here is able or willing to answer that question without me nearly designing the complete project already, then I will look for advice elsewhere.  I am looking for advice before I jump, not critique after I land. 

To be clear, once I get far enough into the project to be a useable demonstration, any advice about how to approach it will fall on deaf ears, because I am simply going to push ahead and finish the project in whatever way I started it (since it would take more time and effort to start over, than to finish) and use it as a template for future similar projects.  

[TheCADWhisperer]

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@Anonymous wrote:

  I am just wondering if there is a simple, common approach that I am overlooking.  

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I would use the BORN Technique - rock solid and predictable. Fully parametric.

[Anonymous]

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I would use the BORN Technique - rock solid and predictable. Fully parametric.

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Thats kind of what I was doing originally, and the idea that I like the most; however patterns only (seem) to be create-able directly on planes, which means I have to project new planes all over, or not use the pattern mechanism.  Is there a solution to this, should I just avoid patterns, or is this a normal workflow?

Edit: Is Project Geometry the same as Offset Plane?

[TheCADWhisperer]

I very very rarely create ANY workplanes.

That violates the BORN Technique.

Edit: Maybe violates is too strong a word.

I use the BORN Technique as much as possible and practical.

Of course if it isn't possible in a certain case...

And if it isn't practical in a certain case...

I use Patterns whenever possible and practical.

[Anonymous]

Ok, I don't quite understand how I would do patterns without planes.  Should these be avoided with using BORN, or is there a trick to it?  If I try and create a pattern on a plane/origin and then offset it, it removes the pattern. 

[TheCADWhisperer]

Another useful technique is to create a "Keep In" or "Keep Out" unit box of (transparent) surface bodies that do not add mass to the assembly.

Sketches can be created on the box and overall Width, Depth and Height can be controlled from parameters.

[TrippyLighting]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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...any advice about how to approach it will fall on deaf ears, because I am simply going to push ahead and finish the project in whatever way I started it...

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I had a feeling you'd answer the @TheCADWhisperer's perfectly reasonable request with another defiant answer. @TheCADWhisperer and I are volunteering about 70 years (40 of his, 30 of mine) of combined experience in a multitude of professional environments using a multitude of CAD and other 3D modeling software.

If you don't have the basic courtesy of honoring that with some effort on your side then I am out!

[Anonymous]

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@TrippyLighting wrote:

If you don't have the basic courtesy of honoring that with some effort on your side then I am out!

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If you don't have anything helpful to contribute to the conversation, then I wonder why you posted in the first place.  I can only assume that you are more used to advanced or complex questions where an example is not only helpful, but necessary.  In my case the example would either be literally following the (very few) steps that I outlined in the beginning (a useless exercise that I don't have the time nor inclination to do again), or nearly completing a project, in which case a question that essentially amounts to "how to start it", becomes utterly pointless and academic.

[jhackney1972]

You did not say but if the box is square, you can model one side and then use Circular pattern to create the rest.  If it not square, you could mirror.  I hope I understood your project, if not please clarify.  Model is attached.  Both methods are in the timeline, the mirror is suppressed.

[Anonymous]

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@jhackney1972 wrote:

You did not say but if the box is square, you can model one side and then use Circular pattern to create the rest.  If it not square, you could mirror. 

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I really like this approach, and it could work in many situations, but most of my use cases would be with unique extrusions on each side (not the same extrusion).

I have more-or-less completed my project now, so the question is purely academic (it won't help me create a project thats already done) but I have attached it for completeness (and critique if anyone cares).  I attempted to use the advice of @TheCADWhisperer  and use BORN, but I don't think I quite managed it.

I wanted to use patterns for these, but can't get patterns to work unless they are on a plane. 

[laughingcreek]

...I wanted to use patterns for these, but can't get patterns to work unless they are on a plane. 

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??

[davebYYPCU · Accepted solution]

Will fall on deaf ears but - I agree with Alex, 3 patterns and all done.

I used extents to save time, but you can edit them, 

Your parameters in my sketches.

[Anonymous]

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@davebYYPCU wrote:

Will fall on deaf ears but - I agree with Alex, 3 patterns and all done.

I used extents to save time, but you can edit them, 

Your parameters in my sketches.

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I do appreciate the effort, and there are certainly some techniques I haven't seen before here; however I want as much of the geometry and placement to be represented in the sketch as possible, a sort of blueprint if you will.  I am even working on getting the remaining extrusion dimensions represented in the sketch as well.  This will undoubtedly limit what I am able to do; but it's a fairly important element to me.

The deaf ears comment is simply because the project is already done and is being printed, so any advice about how to go about laying it out is moot.  I do enjoy critique as an academic exercise, it's just not the original goal of the topic.

@laughingcreek wrote:

...I wanted to use patterns for these, but can't get patterns to work unless they are on a plane. 

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??

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I mentioned this in the beginning but if the geometry is not on a plane, it won't let me select it as the pattern.  I can already pattern the bottom, as with your example, since it sits on a plane, it's the sides that I couldn't do without creating additional planes.

I do like how you extruded the parts in the middle, rather than the ugly mass of extrusions I had, and will certainly consider it for future cutouts like it.  I may make some changes to the original model at some point, though like all of my projects it's a single use case design and it's already being printed.

[TheCADWhisperer]

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@Anonymous wrote:

... the project is already done and is being printed, so any advice about how to go about laying it out is moot. 

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This is so very wrong attitude/position/opinion...

[Anonymous]

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@TheCADWhisperer wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

... the project is already done and is being printed, so any advice about how to go about laying it out is moot. 

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This is so very wrong attitude/position/opinion...

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I think you completely misunderstand the post.

Unless your advice is so good that it can change a part thats already printed, then an answer to the question about how to start this project, thats already done and printed, is entirely moot.  This isn't opinion, a position, or an attitude.

That is completely separate from critique, which I enjoy discussing, and will be useful for future projects,  it is not going to change this project.  My question, and the entire purpose of the topic, was not "how do I do this better for all future designs" but "how should I approach starting this design". 

I think this is where we keep getting wires crossed.  If I had wanted to know how I could do better in the future, I would have posted a topic asking that question, but I wanted to know how I should approach starting this design, which is already done now.  It's a completely separate topic, and while that question has a lot of merit, and is useful to grow as a designer (and may have been a follow-up question), it's not the question I originally asked; though it seems to be the question that many tried to answer.

[Anonymous]

While it's not quite a solution that works for my design philosophy, it is a simple way to do what I originally asked, so I accepted a solution for the topic.  I am still always open to design critique but keep in mind that I do not have to design complex machinery so what may be good advice for someone seeking to master the wealth of tools that Fusion 360 offers, I seek only high level concepts or low hanging fruit that might simplify my casual usage for Fusion 360.