crash after crash

[yoshimitsuspeed]

Awesome to see that stability is as always zero priority for the F360 team.

Just installed a new update.
Tried to open a drawing that I need for a high priority project and it crashed.
Tried a couple more times and it crashed.
Restarted my computer because once that resolved similar issues I was having but that didn't help.
Tried opening another drawing and that opened.
Tried opening a different drawing that I hadn't changed in a number of updates and it crashed.
So Autodesk you have about a half dozen crash reports from me. Yes F360 is actually giving me crash reports about 40% of the time so woot for that I guess.

I have also started an invoice and will be tracking my time lost to Fusion360 bugs and crashes at a rate of $80/hr.
I know that some number of crashes, bugs or issues should be expected but at a point "stable, production ready, non beta" software that shouldn't be about 40% of the time you spend using the software.
Every time I loose time like this I loose money. AD doesn't seem to give a S and just wants me to voulenteer more time to make their software better with no benefit to me. So from now on you are on the clock AD.

[sanjay_jayabal]

Hi,

We apologize for the inconvenience this is causing you.  We do take Stability very seriously.  We became aware of the issue you are referring to late last week and didn't want to jeopardize the release by introducing a fix at the last minute.  We have a fix and it is being tested.  We expect to release it soon and will provide an update.  The situation is with drawings created prior to June 20, 2015 which was not opened and saved in any of the updates between the June and September releases.

best regards,

Sanjay Jayabal.

[yoshimitsuspeed]

When you say soon what do you mean?
I need this drawing for a project that I was supposed to start today.
This is some straight up beta $#!! right here.

[roambotics_scott]

We became aware of the issue you are referring to late last week and didn't want to jeopardize the release by introducing a fix at the last minute

Not to be a d⍳ck but..

We do take Stability very seriously

You say that. I suspect you even believe it. But clearly you don't.

If you did, you would have delayed the release.

The most shocking thing to me is that you're not even aware of the optics. Think about how it must feel to try to write an important report that you need to finish in Word for hours, with it crashing frequently, and then having someone from Microsoft tell you «oh yeah we knew this was an issue but released the update anyway». It's just staggering.

I'm not even upset, my jaw is just on the floor.

Stability should be a zero tolerance thing, and when you deploy a new release, it should be rock solid - at least to the best of your knowledge. 

@colin.smith you guys should look at this like a rocket launch. If you get 999 people saying «go for launch» and one saying «no go» then you don't go. 

People are counting on this program for work. I'm so glad not to be among them at the moment, but Yoshi certainly does.

I know Autodesk is a big company and you can screw up almost infinitely many times without feeling any consequences, but if you're a small business up against deadlines, missing them because your tools are broken sounds to the clients like «the dog ate my homework». A lot of that business is going to be repeat customers and referrals and for both of those, your reputation matters.

You want to be the guy who got it done on time with no excuses, not the guy who didn't come through (never mind the psychological cost of engaging in a nearly Sisyphean task).

[roambotics_scott]

Unrelated but how many PMs does F360 have ?!?

[daniel_lyall]

@yoshimitsuspeed have you tried fusion on a different computer

[yoshimitsuspeed]

---

@daniel_lyall wrote:

@yoshimitsuspeed have you tried fusion on a different computer

---

Why? They already found the problem and admitted they issued an update prematurely that caused this issue and put my business behind schedule.

[daniel_lyall]

@yoshimitsuspeed I tried to reproduce your issue before I posted I can`t, I tried all my play files as far back as 17/3/15 all that happens is between the period @sanjay_jayabal said about it just take 15 second`s to open a file the rest take 3 seconds.

I all ways try to reproduce your problem I only have been able to a couple of times.

as I have said before AD need`s to get the detail`s of the computer`s people have that have very simaller problem`s to you and to compear the computer speck`s to other who don't have the same problem`s, there will lay the problem.

as you have said before your computer is faster than mine but you have a tonne of problem`s where I dont so why is the big question. 

[Pedro_Bidarra]

Why we need a Beta channel: http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/ideas/v2/ideapage/blog-id/125/article-id/7695/

[roambotics_scott]

I know you're trying to be helpful, but (as Yoshi said) they don't need to identify or reproduce the problem.

They know exactly what it is.

They identified it before releasing the Pinto - I mean F369.

They even have a fix apparently.. but somehow their release procedure wouldn't let them put that patch in while it would let them release a known broken build.

And there is no work around for him if he needs to use those particular files.

The message is pretty loud and clear - «we'd rather release a broken update on time than delay it a bit and do it right».. which is bizarre considering how often they've released builds months behind schedule.

[prabakarm]

@roambotics_scott

My intent is not get into a long debate with you but to state how we came to the decision to release this Saturday as we do have to make tradeoffs.  Here are the facts…

1. The issue under discussion happens only if the drawing was saved prior to June 20^th and was never opened/saved after that. The number drawings in that situation was small.  So far we have had 3 users hit the issue out of the thousands who have used the product the last couple of days
2. The update this Saturday had numerous stability and usability fixes. We had addressed ~40% of the CER buckets.  Many sketch constraint and modeling issues have been addressed.  As Mike mentioned in his blog that is what the team is focused on.
3. The next window for us to release would probably two weeks from now. We decided not to sit on these broad set of fixes which will benefit a large number of users for two weeks.  Moreover, if we had delayed the release for two weeks then the Mac App Store release would have been further delayed due to the approval process delaying the benefits of the update longer for those users.
4. In the past we have decided to delay releases to address last minute issues we have found depending on the severity and broad impact but this issue did not meet that criteria for us to delay the release.  We decided to work on the fix and release it ASAP after the saturday update.

Again my intent is not to debate the decision but to state our thought process. 

@yoshimitsuspeed

The fix will be released today, if not tomorrow

[Pedro_Bidarra]

So, you knew about the exact conditions that would trigger the bug and and had the data to warn users possibly affected.

Maybe you sould have warned those users (or all users) to open and save their drawings (that hadn't been saved after June 20th) before updating?

[roambotics_scott]

I don't want to be an a-hole but please read about the exploding Pinto.

Not caring about «3 out of thousands» is the reason you only have thousands of users.

[yoshimitsuspeed]

Again this makes me wonder how many people are seriously using this software.
Most of my drawings are older than that. Many of them haven't been opened since July.
I have parts manufactured. I'll open some projects once every three to six months and have a run of parts manufactured.
Or in this case a customer wants a header built that I make about 4 a year and all my angle cut patterns are saved in F360.

This is completely unacceptable for non beta software.

Even had I been warned about this prior it would take me a pretty serious chunk of time to go through all my files and open and save every one that I might possibly need.
And then the way things go I would probably miss the one that I actually needed in the end.

[yoshimitsuspeed]

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@daniel_lyall wrote:

@yoshimitsuspeed have you tried fusion on a different computer

---

I tried on my laptop today just to make you happy. 

This is 45 min after hitting update and about 30 min after it initially said update was complete and restarting. 
F360 runs like complete **** on my laptop. I know my XPS M1730 is a little old but it should be more than enough to run any CAD program without issue. 

My other good computer has the same family motherboard, an I5 processor instead of I7 and the same brand memory. It is so similar to my work desktop that if my desktop has ptoblems there is a good chance it will too. 
More importantly I would have to install Windows on it and with my one copy can't be just installing on all my computers just to see what happens. If it didn't work on that then what do I do? Buy or build another computer just to work with my CAD program that apparently can only be used with certian computers? Do I buy another laptop?
Then I need two more copies of Windows to install on my new computers bought/built just to run F360. 
By then I could have bought a proper CAD program that ran on my current computers. 
How do I know? Because on my desktop I have run without issue 

Inventor

Freecad

Solidworks

Solid Edge

Alibre

Librecad

Draftsight

Bricscad

and a few other trials of lesser known stuff. 
I have run most of those on my laptop without issue. 
In fact my older and less capable M1710 ran Solidworks beautifully. 

[Pedro_Bidarra]

Hey, I might have a workaround for you.

Using A360 on the web export/download your design as F360 Archive, then start Fusion and upload the file you downloaded, and see if that works.

(what this does is save the drawing with whatever they updated since June and should not crash now)

[daniel_lyall]

@roambotics_scott knowing @yoshimitsuspeed computer speck`s is a big help to finding why he has so many problems and I don't as been said they only know of 3 people who have reported this problem, there has to be a common reason for it to happen to a limited amount of people.

as I found I got a big slow down but no crash 30 seconds to load the file`s not saved during the time frame when thing go bad. all other file where 3 seconds.

he said he has a I5 so do I, that`s not the problem that is one thing that is ruled out. I have a gaming graphics card in my laptop that is 2 gig but can pull 1 gig of ram leaving 3 gig to run the computer or vices versa.

so there has to be a reasons for the problem it`s not all down to fusion or everyone will have this problem it will be setting in fusion what make this happen to some computer set up`s.

also I have tested computer`s as machine controller`s and some brands are lump`s of dung some of the computer`s I tested where 14 year`s old and worked fine some newer computer`s where only good for target practice`s.

also running files in and out of A360 or autocad360 can clear up problem`s but yes it`s another work around so it sux`s and should not have to be done bla, bla rant, rant.

so all I can say is if you have a freind who does not mind you putting fusion on there computer what is completely different to your`s it may be worth a try at some stage when you have time, other wise just keep on keeping on.

@sanjay_jayabal you boy`s need a rap over the nucke`s for not say this problem exist`s and we are fixing it on Saturday, Sunday my time when the update went live, it would of save a few posting`s and your time.

[yoshimitsuspeed]

---

@hezog wrote:

Hey, I might have a workaround for you.

Using A360 on the web export/download your design as F360 Archive, then start Fusion and upload the file you downloaded, and see if that works.

(what this does is save the drawing with whatever they updated since June and should not crash now)

---

Crashed again

[prabakarm]

@Pedro_Bidarra we do not have the data on specific users who might be affected.  That said our intent was to let the users know thru the readme but we missed updating the readme which is a mistake on our part.

We will be releasing an update with the fix for the issue today around 6:00pm Pacific Standard Time.

Prabakar.

[daniel_lyall]

it`s good @prabakarm that you boy`s can take it on the chin and move on but stop make silly mistakes that cost everyone time other wise your getting a pink slip LOL