Components and Sub Components

[merik]

Hi Everyone

I was working late last night trying to build a library of common parts I use on my PocketNC 5 Axis machine.

I thought the model of the table, the model of the vise and some of the softjaws I use should be able to be reused across multiple designs.

To do this I created a project called "Base Parts". In this I created a design that has components for the B table, all the vise parts and a parameter driven sketch point that defines the centre of the B and A tables for 5 Axis machining. With this anyone that has a pocketNC could use this design and just changed the machine origin parameter from their own calibration procedure.

The Design looks like this:

I must acknowledge the PocketNC guys for providing the model components.

Please note the orientation of all the components.

I then created a new project and then tried to insert the above components into that new design. I then discovered that Fusion does not support cross project design insertion when there are sub linked components. So I then broke the links in the design and it did import but with some strange results.

To explain I will give you 3 scenarios and three screen shots. I am probably missing something but I am trying to understand the behaviors below:

Scenario 1 is create a blank design saved in the same project as the "base Parts". I then insert the design into current.

 

The design has mysteriously flipped onto its side and I have to rotate it 90 degrees to bring it back to the same orientation as it was in the original. Also the joints and movements that worked in the imported design do not work any more after insertion.

Scenario 2:

I then break the link on the imported design and two things happen. It flips back on its side and two of the set screws loose their position and bury themselves into the table.

Scenario 3 is even stranger. I include the design from the "Base Parts" project into a blank design in a different Project and the alignment of parts is even worse. I get the message that "Designs inserted from another project will not be linked. Components from the selected design will be copied into this design" I click proceed.

This one is upside down.

So sorry if this is a dumb question, but why the different behaviour? What am I missing.

Thanks you for your time and consideration.

Regards

Merik

[Phil.E · Accepted solution]

Hi,

Thanks for a great post and explanation.

In the first image, the source design, I can see a pending Position. You are allowed to save the file without accepting this position. Which means that when it's inserted, this pending state is ignored because you haven't saved it as "captured". This will result in the first problem you point out, the flipping.

Another reason the flipping could happen is if you have Z up in the source file, and Y up in the destination. (or vice versa) The design shows up with Z or Y pointing the same direction that Z or Y is pointing in the destination, which could lead to the described behavior.

As for the rest of it, yes Fusion does not allow cross project linked files at this time. However I can't tell what's happening to your design in the break link scenario without the data. Can you attach the design here so we can try it out?

Thanks,

[merik]

Thanks for that. A combination of both one being Y up and one being Z up and the capture you describe solved the first flip.

The second scenario (when I break the link) still flips half the parts. IE: the table flips and the vise does not.

To recreate the problem I have attached the design. To recreate the issues all you have to do is create an empty design in the same project and save it and create an empty design in a different project.  Use insert into current design then break the link.

http://a360.co/2jtGldw

I also noticed another issue with the file. You can see that the Joints all seem to work in the "PocketNC B Table with Vise" design but they lose their connection to the table when imported.

I also tried to move one of the set screws (see image)

When I select the screw and move it in the direction shown above the other screws move in another.

I clearly have a bit of a ghost in the machine.

Once again thanks for your help

Merik

[Phil.E]

Wow there are a few things going on here aside from any ghost. Unfortunately I can't figure it all out.

Couple things that are missing in your vice/table assembly:

1. Joints between the set screws and fixed vice jaw.

2. A joint between the fixed base and the table.

This does nothing to address the problem of flipping when the link is broken. If you do not break link, the vice should work as expected.

A bug is logged using the model. Do you have the original model of the vice? I think the problem lies in there. The base flips no matter what. That is the bug.

(internal reference: FUS-22975)

Almost forgot to mention: when you move bodies for repeated components, it moves the body inside each component. That is what happened in your illustration. Look at the dialog, you are moving the bodies. Each of those screws contains the same body, so they all move relative to their component origin, which is what you do when you move bodies. Move body moves the body relative to the owning component origin.

Instead, use the Component filter when moving. That moves the singular instance of that one particular component.

Thanks,

[Phil.E · Accepted solution]

A little deeper digging shows that the vice model root origin is rotated. The view cube and the root origin should always agree! We really need to know how that model was made and how to reproduce it in order to block it from happening again.

[merik]

I see that now. I got the model of table and Vise off the manufacturer.

Is there a way to correct the origins to match each other?

Thanks for your help.

[merik]

I have been thinking about this. If what you say is the root cause of the problem, everyone would be have issues.

Perhaps I am not understanding things but we are told to create components early. We import proprietary parts into a design.

I am sure that as we create our designs and drag things about and use joints between all the components, surely we will all end up with multiple origins?

Thanks again

Merik

[Phil.E]

I did not say anything about the root cause of the problem. In fact, we don't know how this happened, that's why I asked! 🙂 I'm simply describing what is wrong with the model.

This is not a problem of multiple origins. The problem is that the design root origin is rotated compared to the world coordinates of Fusion itself. This should be impossible in Fusion. It's not a general problem, it's a problem with this file. 

1. If you could let us know where you got it we could investigate a little more. 
2. If you are able to repeat it with a different design, let us know the steps.

Thanks for your help! Wish I had a better answer. 

Regards,

[Phil.E]

@merik

The easiest way to fix this is to get the components out of the bad assembly.

1. Open the PocketNC model.

2. Create a component.

3. Drag all of the components into it.

4. Right click on it in the browser and "save as"

5. The design that is created will need some work to ensure the joints work, but it will not flip when you break link.