can't move a sketch

[Anonymous]

I'm struggling to do very basic things in Fusion 360, including moving sketches.  The instructions here do not work for me at all:
http://fusion360.autodesk.com/resources/akn/view/NINVFUS/ENU/?guid=GUID-FFD25CD3-0707-429E-B0E6-B7F9...

For example: I sketch a centerpoint circle.  Then I want to move that circle.  I right click, select 'move,' and the dialogue pops up saying "no selection."  The circle is no longer select-able.  WTF #1.

I change mode from "bodies, sketches.." to "move sketch objects" and now I can select the center point and get the manipulator.  Progress!  Then I move it along the x axis, lets say 300mm, click ok, and... nothing happens.  WTF #2.

Going back, I find the only change I CAN make is rotating the circle about a moved pivot point.  For some reason that actually moves the sketch.  WTF #3.

Clearly I'm missing something...  

[shahriarsifat1802164]

Hi, you can look at this screencast to move the sketch.
Move sketch 
Thank you

[Anonymous]

This is always a ridiculously BIG problem in Fusion 360 !!!

Hidden constraints and visible constraints locking you into a useless unworkable mess!!!

SEEMS TO ME WHEN THE MOVE GETS LOCKED FUSION SHOULD GIVE YOU A CHOICE 😮

MOVE SELECTED AND REASSIGN CONSTRAINTS TO THAT LOCATION....

ONE CLICK, ,,, , GET ON WITH YOUR LIFE 🙂

[shahriarsifat1802164]

I think this problem is solved.

[Anonymous]

Just wanted to thank you. it helped me.

I wish the software would have given some warning or sth at least.

there could be an update for that and also an update for when  you select a sketch to move, the move window would automatically goes to select sketch and not body or component.

because you have selected the sketch and then clicked on move command and then you need to change the selection tool to sketch object again. at least it is so for me.

[laughingcreek]

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@Anonymous wrote:

...you have selected the sketch and then clicked on move command and then you need to change the selection tool to sketch object again....

works correctly for me.  can you show that happening in a screen cast?

side note-generally speaking you shouldn't need the move command for sketch objects.  unless your moving a sketch object into 3d space (off the sketch plane).

[Anonymous]

Yep, the problems with the User Interface in Fusion 3D are endemic. I'm expecting flames of "it has to be this way because it's parametric".  I'm afraid I don't buy that argument, but they can keep trying.  Similar issue for me. I have a  sketch of a spline that I am trying to move a copy. I did it yesterday, I did it the day before, but today, nope.

[Anonymous]

There is an old saying “a user interface is like a joke, if you have to
explain it it’s not very good”.

[Anonymous]

I actually accept that there is some explaining required of the underlying concepts. But unfortunately when you have to explain why the move sketch function cant find the line that it has highlighted on the screen and so it moves nothing and gives no error messages as such, now that is a joke. And this with Fusion 360--I am told one of the major players in this field? Anyway, we press on little by little. So today I am resigned to spending my day trying to figure out what I thought I had figured out yesterday.

[TheCADWhisperer]

@Anonymous 

No file Attached here?

[jeff_strater]

cases where you cannot move geometry in a sketch are almost certainly caused by a constraint to some point which cannot be moved.  Usually that is the origin point, but can be a point projected from body geometry, etc.  But, as @TheCADWhisperer says, without a design to look at, that is pure speculation.  

[Anonymous]

I'm a noob to Fusion 3D and this forum, so I hope this is the way to download the problem.

Going back to what I am actually attempting, is to create a parabolic surface of the form z=a*x^2+b*y^2

and then take sections of that surface and move them about.  I've looked around and not sure if that is possible in Fusion 3D. Next best approach and close enough for my application is to fit a spline through a set of points. It would be nice if I could just enter a set of coordinates and have the spline go through those points, but I can't see how to do that either. So what I have done here use a number of rectangles in a plane to locate the coordinates at their upper right corners and then pass the spline through those corners. Then I would like to generate the near parabolic surface. But again, not sure if that's even possible in Fusion 3D as it seems revolve will only work on revolving a plane section--and I have done that before. However, in this attempt, I can't perform a move-copy on the spline section. Yes, it seems to be constrained at the points the spline is passing through, but I can't seem to get rid of the constraints to get the "move/copy" to work. Funnily enough late yesterday I managed to use another function to create a displaced copy. So not sure why some other function would work and not move/copy. Anyway, here it is for you to look at. But as I say, this is like problem-interrupt number 4. What I really want to do is create a "sketch" of a section of paraboloid surface or if I cant do that, a spline surface will do. 

[jeff_strater]

There is a lot going on here, I'll try to answer a few questions:

1. The reasons the curve cannot move
2. How to produce the surface you want
3. A better way to produce this curve/spline

First, this sketch is kind of a mess, to be honest.  The reason why things won't move, as I suspected, is because you have placed points at the origin.  That point is locked on purpose, and is there precisely so that the curves attached to it won't move.  If you want to move this curve, don't place it at the origin.  And, in this case, you have lots of points (5) stacked up at the origin:

You also have a lot of overlapping horizontal lines here:

you certainly don't need all those horizontal lines.  You don't need any of them.  In fact, you don't even need the vertical lines, you could just dimension the points from the start point without any lines.

I was able to untangle all these constraints, and produced a sketch that is moveable:

Second, the surface.  I'm not really sure what "But again, not sure if that's even possible in Fusion 3D as it seems revolve will only work on revolving a plane section--and I have done that before." means.  But, if you want to revolve this curve, I would use a Surface Revolve, and then if you want a solid, use Thicken.  This is what I've done in the attached design.

Third, a different way to create the curve.  I would use the "ImportSplineCSV" script in the Tools/Addins section:

This program is for exactly this use case - you provide a comma-separated-value files (CSV) and it will create a spline through those points.  Worth checking out.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Jeff,

Sounds like, for this particular case, my best option is to generate the csv parabola in, say, Excel, and then not place it at the origin and do a surface revolve. I'll try that and post back on this thread and let you know how it went.

I would have left it at that, except for this comment of yours, "First, this sketch is kind of a mess, to be honest."  

Perhaps that should make you stop and wonder, why did you start with that?

Yes, there are neater ways to do it, but why didn't you ask yourself "Why did Fusion 360 invite a Fusion 360 user to create a mess?"   Turning the questions around is actually the Usability question developers could be asking themselves. It is very easy to jump to the conclusion that users are not very bright and create messes, rather than asking yourselves how do we improve our product.

When I posted this question I was wondering if someone was going to point me at the conics option, but you didn't, rather you advised me to go outside Fusion 360 to initiate the solution. That implies that the conic option is not fit for the function I need. If I was a Fusion 360 developer I would be rather concerned about that issue and would be looking to improve it, and if users generate "a mess" that would be an important indicator that the software could do with some improvement.

BTW, I might be a Noob to Fusion 360, but I am not a Noob to CAD/CAM. In an earlier life (back in the 1980s, yes I'm old) I had the good fortune to be a member of a software team that developed the predecessors of the modern CAD/CAM packages, like Fusion 360. It was an excellent team, and one of the reasons it was an excellent team was because we listened to the shop-floor (literally). Back then our users were the machinists that operated the mills and lathes on the shop floor. It would have been very easy to consider ourselves superior to the machinists, and our product would have been the worse for it. So you can dismiss my advice if you like, or perhaps we could be lucky, and you might take what I am saying seriously and improve the Fusion 360 community culture and start fixing problems like pointing us to Excel to generate a quadratic because the conics option is useless, or advising against using (0,0,0) (the natural place to want to put a mathematical function) as the root for our designs. 

Hope that helps

George

[TrippyLighting]

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@Anonymous wrote:

... but why didn't you ask yourself "Why did Fusion 360 invite a Fusion 360 user to create a mess?" 

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Because Fusion 360 attempts to be a tool for professional users. Functionality, UI elements, and workflows that appeal to users new to CAD can often get in the way of an efficient workflow for experienced users. 

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@Anonymous wrote:

... Turning the questions around is actually the Usability question developers could be asking themselves. It is very easy to jump to the conclusion that users are not very bright and create messes, rather than asking yourselves how do we improve our product...

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@Anonymous wrote:

..., or perhaps we could be lucky, and you might take what I am saying seriously and improve the Fusion 360 community culture and start fixing problems...

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So given your years of presence and contribution to this forum and frequent interactions with the developers, you've come to the conclusion that the developers don't ask themselves that question and even that there's something wrong with the Fusion 360 community culture?

I can assure you that based on my years of presence and contribution to this forum and frequent interactions with the developers, that they are very sensitive particularly to users new to CAD. Amongst all the CAD tools I've used professionally in the last 3 decades, Fusion 360 has the most intuitive UI.

It is simply the case that the creation of curves and geometry based on mathematical formulae is not yet implemented, simply because other feature sets are more important. 

[Anonymous]

All I did was respond to a comment that my sketch was "a bit of a mess". That was uncalled for and I just pointed out the alternative perspective, that it may be a problem with the UI or even some conceptual issues with the design of the software. And you've just demonstrated how not to listen to feedback, continue to put down new users and imply that the product is the best it can be. So customer satisfaction is not a major priority for you? Thanks for letting us know.

[TrippyLighting]

As an Autodesk Expert Elite I am a customer just as you. I don't work for Autodesk!

@jeff_strater 's sentence seems to have struck a nerve. Based on that one sentence you made broad assumptions about the Fusion 360 development team and the Fusion 360 community.  Those assumptions are unfounded!

You will come to the same conclusion if you stick around here for a while 😉

[TheCADWhisperer]

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@Anonymous wrote:

In an earlier life (back in the 1980s, yes I'm old)  Back then our users were the machinists that operated the mills and lathes on the shop floor. It would have been very easy to consider ourselves superior to the machinists, 

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Back in the 1980s I spent 8 years out on the shop floor as a precision machinist earning my Journeyman Machinist card.

I have to wonder why you duplicated several horizontal lines overtop of each other?  🤔

You could also use intersecting geometry to create the precise >>conic section curve<<.

I learned this in math class.

[jeff_strater]

I apologize for the "a bit of a mess" comment.  In all honesty, I was probably reacting to your earlier posts where you referred to Fusion as a joke, and otherwise implied that we, the development team, didn't know what we were doing, or are create a purposely confusing UI.  So, yes, I admit to being human, and might at times react incorrectly to what I perceive as unfair criticism.  I was also tired from a long stressful day, and probably should not have even tried to respond when I did, but I felt I owed you a response after asking for the design.  So, sorry for that comment.

Yes, ideally, Fusion would warn you when you are creating overlapping geometry, and would also optionally break those constraints to the origin when you try to move sketch geometry.  But, if you've spent any time on this forum at all, you will know that there are hundreds, maybe thousands of issues, each of which provoke a similar level of outrage in the person that discovered it, and possibly wasted time because of that issue.  As much as we'd like to, we cannot fix all of these instantly.  So, we have to prioritize what we spend our time on.  Fusion is used by a wide range of people, with a wide range of 3D or CAD experience, we also have to balance helping newer CAD users with annoying those with more experience.  There are only so many guardrails we can put in before it starts to overwhelm the UI.

Regarding the conic curve:  I read your requirement as wanting to create a curve with a general equation, and the conic curve doesn't necessarily solve that requirement.  I also tend to not recommend conic because it is not as well supported in the solver as other curves, and I didn't want to risk sending you in an even more frustrating direction.  And yes, equation-driven curves is on the roadmap, but we don't have a target timeframe for it.  So, yes, if it were me, I would use the ImportSplineCSV macro to create the curve.  It works, and it seemed like it fits your requirements:  "It would be nice if I could just enter a set of coordinates and have the spline go through those points, but I can't see how to do that either"

[Anonymous]

"...sentence seems to have struck a nerve." You're still at it, shifting the problem onto the Noob. My comments are not based on that one sentence, in chasing up problem after problem I have seen that sort of tone alot in the forum.

[Anonymous]

Hi Jeff, apology accepted. Regarding the "joke", in my earlier post I was responding to someone that replied to me with a quote that "a UI is LIKE a joke, if you have to explain it it has failed." That comment wasn't initiated by me, and I actually defended the requirement for explanations at the conceptual level. But there is a lot of truth in that "joke" quote.

I do understand the difficult situation the development team is in, I have worked on many technology developments over the decades, so I get where you are coming from. However, that doesn't eliminate the frustration that new users of a product will feel (including myself) with the learning curve of trying to read the mind of the developer, and navigating one's way through obscurities at every step. From my perspective as the Noob I am left with the question of "should I persist with Fusion 360" or go elsewhere?

I have recently been through a similar experience with KiCAD for PCB design, and it has similar issues to Fusion 360, the learning curve was many months and it was only possible to get through it with the support of others who knew the deficiencies. But in that case the people who helped me never shoved the problem back onto the Noob like in these forums, and they understood the frustration that goes with getting over the hump.

So I'm prepared to persist for a little longer, and I may run my attempts at my design in parallel with another CAD product and see which way I will go. The nature of help I get from Autodesk and the community will be an important factor in deciding which way I should jump.