Mirroring Component does not Link to Time-Line

[Anonymous]

Hi,

Bug:

0) Start new design

1) Create a Component and activate it.

2) Draw a sketch with a rectangle, extrude it. You made a body. (box; somewhere)

3) Mirror Command: Mirror "Component", select the component with the box in the browser or by clicking on the box-body; select some Mirror-Plane from the origin for example. (the plane doe not matter)

4) Click on the Box of the mirrored Component that was created.

Expected behavior: The selected box (body of the mirrored component) should link to the timeline where it was created, in this case the mirror command.

Current behavior: broken. 😞

5) Rght click in the Browser on the mirrored componen -> Find in Timeline.

Expected behavior: guess what.

Current behavior: ... nothing.

Also mirroring Components seems to be very broken in general. I have an inserted/linked component, that is multiplied (after insertion) by mirroring several times. So one component becomes 2, then 4 then 8 then 16 with four mirror operations. When the linked component is updated (no change to the bodies or whatever, even just inserting a section analysis and saving again), updating the component smashes all mirror operations. Somehow, it only remembers only the first selected item. I try to concentrate that bug into an easy step by step thingy too.

Sorry if its a duplicate. Not really, should be fixed, if so 😛

[Anonymous]

Here, both issues demonstrated.

[TrippyLighting]

I am not sure what you are expecting to see in the timeline but mirroring the same linked components multiple times as you described and updating it works fine here.

Also, can you elaborate on exactly what else is broken in the Component mirror functionality ?

[Anonymous]

Hi,

Have you ever noticed, that if you select a face or body or hole or chamfer or [...], the timeline highlights usually where the face/body/feature was created so you have an easy time changing the parameters? Well, the same is true for a mirrored body - if you select a mirrored body, the mirror feature is highlighted. (Same for a face or feature)

If you mirror a component, no selection you can do will link to the mirror-timeline-entry that created the mirrored component. 

Bug.

I am not sure how i can eleaborate more than the screencast i provided. If you watch till the end, you see that the mirror-feature lost components during a linked-component-update even if the original component does not actually change. The behavior is not excusible  because the mirror command actually changes its list of Components that should have been mirrored. It is not just a missing reference but a true bug.

Also, have you ever clicked on the timeline - right click "find in window" of a component mirror feature? It does not zoom to the right position [center the selection] if you mirror a component. It is completely broken. However it does at least select the components that were spawned by the mirror feature..

Please tell me if you dont see the screen cast. First time posting here. I hoped it was quite clear that it is not ok that random instances of my model just disapear on an update. 

[TrippyLighting]

The first two issues you've noted I've noticed many times. I decided not to report these because sometimes I just need to get work done and don't have the time to report bugs. In the grand scheme these bugs I would say are less important and I have come to accept them. But you are correct that these are bugs!

The third one seems to be connected to the uses of the "Inspect->section cut". If you don't use that tool it seems to work fine.

But that is a fat bug as well!

@jeff_strater @ryan.bales  Here are a few more for the bug list! 

[sonstwienix]

Since you couldnt replicate the behavior with the lost mirroring instance after a linked file update, i have tried the same workflow on my home-account.  I could replicate it.

I think the lost mirroring instance is the most severe bug - if you reference geometry off the vanishing part you are unable to restore it [and be recognized as the same body if you correct the feature] and therefore you potentially damage your model every time a linked component updates. Then good luck finding the mirror-feature at fault, since you cant select the components and see which mirror-feature spawned them, in a big time-line you are screwed.

[jeff_strater]

@Anonymous , thanks for sharing the screencast.  A few comments:

• selecting a face, and highlighting the owning feature in the timeline.  I agree that this is broken.  Surprisingly, we've never heard this before.  I will log a bug on this
• when selecting the mirror feature in the timeline, Fusion highlights only the mirrored instances.  This is intentional, and somewhat philosophical in nature.  Is the "result" of a mirror only the instances created by the feature, or should it include the "seed" instance?  We chose the former.  It's debatable.
• update concerns.  This, also, was intentional.  Analysis is intended to not be exported to referencing assemblies.  This is not an update problem at all.  Even if you create a section analysis before you insert the design into another design, the analysis does not come along for the ride.  It is the same with all analyses (zebra, etc).  Had you, instead, added a fillet or hole, I can assure you that the referencing assembly would be correctly updated.

If I've missed some other issues, please let me know.

[TrippyLighting]

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@sonstwienix wrote:

Since you couldnt replicate the behavior with the lost mirroring instance after a linked file update ...

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I was able to replicate the behavior.Otherwise I would not have confirmed it as a bug 😉

@jeff_strater The issue is not that when you do a section cut on the linked component and save it in that state with the section cut visible then one of the mirrored instances vanishes when you update the assembly. The vanished instance does not return when you go back to the linked component and turn the section cut off.

It looks to me like the mirror tool is dropping a selection.

If you re-select the un-selected instance it will mirror properly again.

If you go back to the linked component, make an edit, save it again, and then update the assembly it drops it again.

You can then go into the mirror tool add the selection again na dit will work again.

[sonstwienix]

Hi Jeff,

yes yes yes, you missed the most important thing actually. 

My point was not about the section analysis at all. Really, forget about it. It is just a placeholder nor a non-change for a version update to the box to v2. You could also just construct a random plane, axis or whatever, it does not matter. (you can also do actual changes to the geometry, however it is not important to replicate the bug)

The issue is, that after updating the design that references the part, a mirrored component vanishes!

Please pay close attention, I inserted one box as referenced component. Then i mirrored the component several times (3x) to get to 8 boxes in the end. After updating the design due to a "non-change" in the referenced compoenent, count the boxes again. There are only 7 because the last mirroring operations component list lists only 3 components instead of 4.

This is the major bug, all other bugs are an inconvenience but forgivable, but loosing instances due to an update because a feature forgets parts of the selected items can break whole designs without chance of an easy repair, especially when you reference geometry off vanishing instances.

PS:

This sonstwienix-account is the same person as the einkaufV6GJ7. This is just my private account instead of my work-account. If you ever mention me in your bug-fix reports, after you "untangled some wires", use the sonstwienix handle. 😉

[jeff_strater]

@sonstwienix -  Sorry for the delay, I've been traveling outside of the country.  Thanks for the clarification.  I can reproduce that bug, and we will look into it further.

Jeff

[jeff_strater]

this has been filed as FUS-49070.  Thanks again for reporting it

[Anonymous]

Dear Jeff,

first i wanted to confirm that i am Sonstwienix from the other account.

Secondly i think the issue is deeper than initially reported.

I had the same bug now on other operations on components (pattern along path and rectangular pattern).

The issue is suvere enough that i could actually not use the operations for a stable result. 

Dragging the arrows of the rectangular operation resulted in wild flickering of the components. Also recomputing the pattern (by dragging the timline marker over it repeatedly) resulted in randomly vanishing components. Computing the whole assembly (Ctrl+B) also resulted in vanishing components. 

Me, as a C++ programmer would probably attribute this behavior to an unititialized variable or something - just smells like it.

I cant really share a screencast of the issue, but if i have time, i will try to make an easy example again.

I am not certain that the issue is the same as initially reported, however it all evolves around operations on components that are linked.

I also notice that, if i use a pattern (along path) on a linked component, the spawned components show up with the chain-symbol in the hirarchy while mirroring the components, does not yield the chain symbol. There is definitively some inconsistency there.

I will try my best to create a screencast that i can share to demonstrate the issue. 

Thank you for taking this seriously, please further observe this topic as i will add stuff here.

[TrippyLighting]

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@Anonymous wrote:

I also notice that, if i use a pattern (along path) on a linked component, the spawned components show up with the chain-symbol in the hirarchy while mirroring the components, does not yield the chain symbol. There is definitively some inconsistency there.

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It might be unexpected but it isn't inconsistent.

When you insert/link a component into another design it is just a static link. You cannot edit that component within that design it was inserted into. You'll have to open that linked component separately to edit it.

When you mirror a linked component the body in that component is copied into the new mirrored component and scaled across the mirror axis by -1. This form of mirroring works in many a modeling software.

The body in that mirrored component can be edited and you can add features that are not present in the original  linked component.

However, when you edit the linked component the body in that mirrored component will also update.

.

[sonstwienix]

Not sure if i agree, but i can see the argument. However all those replication mechanisms basically work based on a transformation which is done by a 4x4 matrix (as I remember from my graphics programming days).

I dont see why multiplying by a mirroring matrix is a different operation than a multiplication my a matrix that just translates and/or that applies rotation. It is all fundamentally the same thing, just setting up the transformation matrix is different.

Where you exactly see the difference.. i mean get your point.. but i dont think this opinion is mathematically founded 😉

So far i could not replicate the bug i mention above. I am sorry, i do my best. I kind of think it just needs to happen in a design that i can share openly.

[Anonymous]

This is an issue with the "Pattern along Path" forgetting its distance during recompute. I have not replicated it in a simplified design. The component (linked) is inserted and as first step replicated once along a line. This is what happens during a recompute:

[Anonymous]

This is the flickering i spoke about. Some spawned components randomly jumps positions. One such random position is completely out of context of the command (off grid). Have a look.

I will backup the design in the current state. If Jeff Strater is interested to have a look at this isse personally, i hope we can get in contact somehow. I however dont think that i am allowed to share the design openly.

This is why i hide the component tree, but the components i work on here are linked.

[Anonymous]

This is about the flickering i spoke about in the posts above. The linked component randomly jumps positions.

I wil backup the design in the current state. If jeff.strater wants to have a look at this design privately, i think i might share it. I just cant do it openly.