[CLOSED] Call for Preview Feedback: Arrange Feature

[javiar]

Hi all,

I'm excited to introduce our brand-new "Arrange" feature which is now available as a Public Preview in the August update. To try this, go to Preferences > Preview Features and enable "Arrange Feature" and "Manufacturing Working Model"

Preferences_Arrange.png

Arrange feature enables efficient object arrangement within a specified rectangular or non-rectangular bounding area. You can specify the arrangement boundary by either selecting a sketch or choosing a plane along with desired Length and Width dimensions.

Arrange_PublicPreview_August2020.jpg

While it automatically determines the orientation of selected objects based on largest area planar face, you can flip the objects or select an alternate planar face interactively. Similarly, you can also create the arrangement above or below the chosen planar boundary.

Arrange is a history-capture feature that is recorded on the timeline and supports associative updates with any design changes. As the history marker is moved backwards or forwards, the changes replay in sequence. Moreover, as the boundary area is adjusted, arrangement results update in real time.

Once you are satisfied with the arranged results, you can return to Manufacture workspace to create Setups, Operations, and NC programs for your arranged layouts to drive your CNC equipment.

For more details on Arrange feature, see Help Documentation.

I am sure you will find other creative ways to leverage the power of Arrange in your daily workflows. We would love to hear how Arrange is helping you with your workflows. We're equally interested in any constructive feedback or suggestions. Please share your comments and ideas below.

Looking forward to hear your feedback on this Preview functionality.

Regards,

Ravi J

[karl.ri]

Hi,

what a great feature. But here is still my wish list for enhancements:

* Grain direction is a must  for woodworking but also for sheet metall the direction of rolled plates is important for strength. If a body is oriented in an angle outside of X or Y it will be placed in the original orientation and not in an optimized way (along X or Y axes).

* Arrange should work also without raw material dimensions. Without length and width the most compact result should be given. If either length or width is given, arrange should find the shortest missing dimension.

* There should be a posibility to check the minimum distances after manual changes in the layout. At best during the move of a part it could signal or prevent the undergoing of the minimal distance.

I hope to see the one or the other idea in the final function.

Regards from Austria,

Karl

[Brady_Fulton]

Like others, I'm extremely grateful to see the arrange functionality in Fusion 360. Of the feedback given so far, I'd like to add the following:

1. Greater control over the angle deviation the software tries (I have a few nests that should nest into a smaller area, but the software pushes the smaller parts into their own area).
2. Multi sheet support, both for quantities that require more sheets and when various thicknesses and materials are within an assembly (sounds like this will come via the advanced nesting feature set).
3. Parts inside other parts option
4. A generate/regenerate button (similar to toolpathing), when changing the length/width, it starts processing and fails until I get the dimensions fully input.

[javiar]

@karl.ri and @Brady_Fulton ,

Thanks for the feedback. Glad to hear that you like Arrange.

1. Grain direction, rotation & deviation/increment controls, multi-sheet support, automatic material and thickness detection, etc. capabilities are all available in the Advanced Nesting functionality which is currently in development.
2. Arrange uses a nesting algorithm which requires both object selection as well as a finite boundary. Boundary can either be a sketch or plane (w/ Length x Width) or a planar face (will be available in an upcoming release)
3. Maintain minimum spacing while manually moving components in an arranged layout - Agreed, this would definitely make the edits more reliable and avoid undercutting the minimum part-to-part spacing or overlapping parts. This is commonly known as a "bump" feature. At this time I can not comment on if/when such a bump feature will be implemented. Perhaps adding some planar joints can at least help avoid inadvertently moving components above/below the plane of arrangement.
4. Part-in-part arrangement is already supported. Just need to ensure the item separation is small enough for this to work
   javiar_0-1599002789877.png
5. Preview Toggle - The reason behind current implementation is to eliminate an extra mouse click and compute the results on-the-fly as inputs get modified. To balance this with a good user experience, we've added a short time-delay which avoids immediate preview calculation while still entering values. It also doesn't calculate preview until both values have been input. On Edit, it does begin preview calculation as either value is updated (same time-delay applies). If this becomes a popular request, we can consider increasing this delay or adding a preview toggle. As a workaround:
   • Select a sketch instead of a plane OR
   • First enter Length and Width and then use window selection to select objects from Canvas
   • First enter Length and Width and then select the parent component that contains the components you would like to arrange. This works well if all your components are grouped under a single component. If you select components individually, it will still initiate preview calculation as objects get selected.

Hope this is helpful.

Ravi J

[timewarp]

Love the arrange feature so far. Will we be able to create drawings from the arranged layout? I only have a small CNC router at the moment so its quicker for me to cut the simple parts on a saw. To that end a dimensioned drawing of the parts after they have been arranged would be very handy.

[ACMEracer]

For those that want to control when Fusion calculates the nest, just delete the boundary selection.  This will keep it from generating a new arrangement each time you add a component selection or change spacing.  It's pretty quick to reselect the cut area once your changes are done.

Also, I've had to delete the canvas used on any parts I use.  Updating the part by deleting the canvas doesn't carry to the machine model so delete it first. (save a new version so you can revert back if needed).

I do hope Autodesk keeps the basic functions free with the more advanced features as paid options.  What we have now is the minimum needed and works well.

[MattWynn]

Regarding canvas and decal in Manufacturing model: the September update (scheduled for the 15th I think) will have browser tree items for canvas and decal so you can control visibility.

[Anonymous]

I love this feature. I'm a hobby user and this has made my life so much easier when doing flatpacks. Not only that, but this feature is how I discovered the manufacturing model feature, which is something I didn't know I was looking for.

Besides stuff that other users have mentioned (Grain direction and auto-planar joints specifically), one thing I would appreciate is the ability to have more dynamic border spacing on the target sketch/plane. For example, I would prefer the sides border spacing to be larger than the top and bottom border spacing, and modifying the target after arranging resulted in some weird behavior.

Again, love the feature already, thanks! 

[javiar]

@Anonymous ,
Thanks for your feedback. It is always nice to hear how the team's hard work is positively impacting user workflows. We appreciate it.

Good suggestion regarding variable spacing from different edges. For the sake of simplicity we've limited this to a single value. Advanced Nesting functionality, which is currently in development, does include ability to set different spacing values from top, bottom, left, right edges. Even if we are to consider this for Arrange, we will need to implement something more dynamic that presents this control only when plane/rectangular sketches are selected. This wouldn't work for boundary by face selection (not available today but is coming soon) or non-rectangular sketches.

"...and modifying the target after arranging resulted in some weird behavior.

---

Can you share more details on this? Thanks,

Ravi J

[Anonymous]

I can't quite remember what I did to get weird behavior and can't replicate it now. Now what I do instead is to make my sketch a little narrower than I want, extrude a body, arrange on the sketch, then extrude the sides of the body out a bit to compensate, and that seems to work flawlessly.

[javiar]

Thanks for the quick reply. What you can also do is add cutouts within your sketch to increase the non-nestable area as desired. When creating the extrude to model the stock, select both profiles (inner and outer) and it will give you a solid body.

javiar_0-1599849554599.png

javiar_1-1599850103630.png

Ravi J

[Anonymous]

I just used the arrange feature for the first time and look forward to wearing it out.

I used auto arrange on four parts and it did a fine job. I then explore how to manually lay out my parts on a sheet. In the lay out I have four parts. Three of them are the same part which was (circular patterned )in the design space. When I move one of the part all three move symmetrically. I did not find a way to delete or break the association. So I turned off two of the three instances and just made new copy/pastes which were independent. That aloud independent placement.

I would think joints and patterns could be turned off in Manufacturing workspace because your Manufacturing layout intent is different than your design layout intent.

I love the functionality and look forward to the advanced implementation. The (lay everything flat/ with orientation selection) is already worth the price of admission. This is great for laser cutting. Thanks for the early look.

One more comment. All the tools in general, view, visibility, layout are a breath of fresh air in the CAM workspace. They really go a long way in the productivity and usability of the tool. I've been using CAM for over 30 years. This may not be a cutting feature but it is none the less important over all. Thanks

[Anonymous]

As I use the arrange function I have had to re-hide my components. I am only milling 4 out of 18 components in the design. The system has repeatedly unhid all components. It happened mostly when I was rearranging the layout but then it happened after leaving the window and coming back. I wish I could I identify one trigger for you. Now that the first setup is complete it seems to have stabilized. Components are staying hidden.

[javiar]

Hi @Anonymous ,

Thanks for the feedback and kind words. Glad you are enjoying the new Arrange feature and Manufacturing Models.

1. Regarding Move/Copy function moving all objects relative to each other - You can avoid this by changing the "Move Object" selection from "Bodies" to "Components". With "Move Object" set to "Components", you will be able to move the components individually.
2. Regarding visibility anomaly - we've received a few similar reports recently. This is related to some issues with visibility persistence in Manufacturing Models. Good to hear that it seems to have stabilized for now. In case you notice this again, please let us know. A screencast (screen recording) would be much appreciated.

Ravi J

[Anonymous]

I am really disappointed in this feature. It seems to work well for what it does, but it's completely useless for sheet metal components until it can use unfolded parts.  And it's next to useless for wooden parts without controlling for grain direction.  

I was hoping to be able to use this for arranging flat patterns. Any idea when that will be possible?

Also it would be helpful to have the ability to set the offsets differently for an individual component. For example, some of my plywood components need extra room on one side or another for running a chamfer tool, or cutting a pocket all the way to the edge with a larger radius tool, but most only need clearance for a 1/4" tool to cut the profile. Would be really nice to have more manual control over spacing. 

Really I'd settle for just a way to get a flat pattern into the regular model instead of opening all by itself in a weird single item workspace that has no connection to the rest of the model. No way to reference other geometry or dimensions, no parameters, just a single lonely part.   Why is this so hard?  It feels like the unfolding bit is a completely separate software than fusion, and I'm guessing it actually is something like this that isn't well integrated yet. It would be really nice to have an option to export the flat pattern as a solid body back into the model. Honestly, why isn't this the default? Everything in the flat pattern workspace could be done just as easily in the model workspace. Easier actually, because then we'd have access to other geometry and all of the parameters used in the model. And we wouldn't have to fight with the strange behavior of flat patterns in the Manufacture workspace. I'd happily arrange them manually if it was possible to have more than one flat pattern open at a time. Of course, manually arranging parts with a given space between items is also difficult because there's no way to set bodies/components/faces/points offset from more than one thing at a time, which every other CAD software seems to do just fine.  Seems like you guys are constantly wasting time on advanced features that are crippled by a lack of some of the most basic functionality.  It makes me wonder if anyone at Autodesk actually uses the software for anything beyond making 101 level parts. 

People need to be able to arrange parts on a sheet for cutting. Before investing years into developing automated nesting, it would be nice to have a simple manual way to get the job done.  Currently there still isn't any good way to accomplish what should be a very simple task. 

[Anonymous]

I just noticed a bug, or at least an annoying feature. 

I had created a manufacturing model to play with the arrange feature, but then couldn't get any of the flat patterns to be visible again after exiting the manufacturing model. Nor could I delete the manufacturing model. I solved it eventually by creating a new setup, and selecting the default manufacturing model during setup. After that my flat patterns were all selectable again. Rather, they'd always been selectable, they just didn't show up when selected. 

Messing around while writing this I made another setup and selected the manufacturing model, but now couldn't get that one to be visible. The flat patterns also disappeared from view. Had to right click "manufacturing models" folder and select hide/unhide to get it visible again. Even though the visibility toggle for the actual manufacturing model was toggled on, and there is no toggle for the folder. 

Flat patterns really don't play well with anything in this space. And it looks like maybe manufacturing models don't either.  Toggling between seeing the regular model, manufacturing model, and flat patterns just doesn't work well at all.

Am I missing some obvious setting or workflow here? 

[javiar]

@Anonymous ,

Thanks for taking the time to share your feedback. I can empathize with your frustration around the current limitation for handling sheet metal flat patterns in the Arrange workflow. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, that is not available yet but will be coming in a future release. At this time, I can not share a timeline estimate. In the meantime, there are a few temporary workarounds available:

1. Create a new document and insert derive flat patterns of components you would like to arrange. (FYI - This has some shape overlap issues which are getting resolved in next update)
2. Activate flat pattern, RMB “Save Copy As” to save as a new component and then use this in existing or new document. (This is similar to what you are suggesting - Exporting flat pattern as solid body and using it in the model)
3. Export DXF of the flat pattern and import it as a sketch into a separate component.

Regarding not being able to delete (the last) Manufacturing Model - this will be resolved in the next update. We are also working on Mfg Model related visibility inconsistencies. Thanks for the attention to detail here.

The nesting engine that computes the part arrangement can only accept a single "item separation" value. However, there is a way to achieve exactly what you are looking for. Since Arrange allows you to select a 'sketch' as your shape boundary, you can create a sketch for each of the objects where you would like variable spacing. Then select these sketches in the Arrange dialog. See example below:

javiar_0-1600459948805.png

Grain direction, rotation & deviation/increment controls are all available in the Advanced Nesting functionality which is currently in development. In the future, we may consider adding these to Arrange.

Hope the tips help you find value in current state of Arrange and actually enhance your workflow. Again, thanks for taking the time to chime-in here.

Ravi J

[Anonymous]

Hello,

I posted above, still enjoying the heck out of this feature, but I recognized the problem described in #2 in my own workflow. I'll try to get a screencast whipped up, but the problem set for me is:

1) Manufacturing Model is created with full visibility on all objects (including planes and sketches)

2) Arrange requires a plane or a sketch (not a body or face) as it's target in order to work

What this means is that I have to toggle the global visibility options as part of any Arrange action in order to properly select the components to be arranged (going into the individual components and subcomponents to toggle sketch and construction visibility isn't really an option with the amount of components). Not the end of the world, but still an unfortunate combination of states. 

[javiar]

@Anonymous ,

1. Visibility persistence between Design and Mfg Models - this is a know issue that we are looking into.
2. Arrange objects on selected face - this is supported in the September update. In the same field for sketch/plane selection, you can now select a planar face as the arrangement boundary. The flip toggle will still work as expected allowing you the determine which side of the selected planar face the objects get arranged on.

Ravi J

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the feedback and ideas.

I have used method 3 a few times, and it works fine but has some obvious limitations. Mainly that it doesn't update with changes to the main model. 

I tried your method 2, but got an error message stating that "Export and Save Copy As are not supported for Flat Patterns". I'd think that even if it worked this would also suffer from not easily updating. 

Method 1 could be a good solution once the overlap issues are worked out. I'll play around with it this week and see how I can use it in my workflow. 

Ideally, I'd still like to see Flat Patterns better integrated into the software. If Create Flat Pattern just added a new body and bend line sketch to the existing component that would solve almost all of my problems. I can see how that would be difficult to do on your end though, mostly due to the need to keep it updated with changes to the folded form. But as a temporary workaround it could maybe use the same manual method that flat patterns and derives use now, an icon or something saying it needs to be updated/replaced?

Using a sketch to change spacing is perfect! That little tip will definitely make this feature more useful for me. Thank you. 

Thanks again for the response and help. I really appreciate that you guys listen and are open to feedback. You've got a tough job there, creating such a massive and integrated program, and then having to deal with all of us cranky engineers and CAD jockeys as we try to figure out how to use it. 

[Anonymous]

Hi,

I have been learning this new feature and found a problem when generating a tool path.

The tool path generated on a Model within an Auto arrange setup is somehow corrupted. My example was when selecting Pocket Clearing, there seems to be double or more layers generated compared with the same Pocket Clearing settings on the Model by its self.

I have tried other 3D manufacturing processes and found the same problem with the Arrange feature.

When a part is in an arrangement, the tool paths are not correct. When the Model is on its own the tool paths are normal and as expected.

Please see the uploaded images as a picture says it better.