Upgrade Model Limitations

[floretti]

Hi all, I'm about to upgrade our Revit models from version 2022 to 2024 for about 1500 projects. I looked into the official documentation but there are no references to any limitations.

I'll be upgrading them all possibly on a weekend using UI automation but I was wondering if there are any limitations in terms of how many projects I can upgrade using scripts. Thank you.

[RSomppi]

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@floretti wrote:

Hi all, I'm about to upgrade our Revit models from version 2022 to 2024 for about 1500 projects.

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Unless absolutely necessary, I would advise against upgrading. It's just not recommended to change versions mid-project.

With that said, 2024 had some serious issues with upgraded projects. Schema errors were causing major problems and deleting objects. I think it got sorted out but I wouldn't risk it, especially with that many projects.

[floretti]

Hi @RSomppi, thanks for the advice.

I work in retail and those projects reflect our currently open supermarket stores, not necessarily projects that are mid way. In fact, probably around 80% of those are not going through any work at all and it's just the Revit model waiting for the next project to start. It's a very different system to the standard architecture firm where it's a mix of renos and small fitout updates applied to the same Revit model over and over to reflect site conditions.

Having said that, we do have some large renos which I'll definitely take your comments into consideration and hold off upgrading those until the reno is finished but apart from these projects I'm not too concerned with losing a couple of elements here and there along the process.

[RSomppi]

I'm afradi that you missed the point of my post.

Upgrading for the sake of upgrading is risky. Doing 1500 projects en masse is asking for problems, especially when you consider that 2024 had issues with upgraded projects. "Upgrading ONLY when necessary" is a Revit montra for many experienced users. 

I would avoid 2024 and wait until 2025 comes out. Then, if you still feel the desire to arbitrarily upgrade so many projects it might be safer.

[dbutts7]

Be aware there are some issues going straight to 2024 due to schema errors. Please review this guidance and posts before starting this project:

https://www.autodesk.com/support/technical/article/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/Schema-Conflicts-w...

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-architecture-forum/2024-1-update-causes-new-schema-errors/td-p/...

Make sure you have ALL product updates installed, along with the same version of Desktop Connector for all users.

Also make sure that all users have the same add-ins - this helps to prevent these errors from occurring.

A schema can be purged from a model as needed, but can re-occur if one user on the project is using the add-in.

Personally, I've gotten better results upgrading to 2023 first and then to 2024.

thanks - David B.

[dbutts7]

As far as the process, are you using Autodesk Docs/BIM 360, and have looked into the Project Upgrade tool? That's the best way to handle it if you are cloud-based.

https://help.autodesk.com/view/BIM360D/ENU/?guid=BIM360D_Document_Management_About_Document_Manageme...

You can run a test on all files prior to performing the actual upgrade.

Otherwise, I would be prepared to have some error handling in place, such as when you open a model that has warnings or errors, or are missing links. These are some of the more common reasons for failures.

[dbutts7]

2025 has been released, and does have fixes for the schemas that Autodesk has put into place. But I'm old school, I like to wait a few months to make sure the kinks are worked out first. 

I do disagree on the upgrade mantra - our logic is based on timeline. If a project is 18 months or less, keep it in the same version. Anything longer, and we upgrade depending on the schedule. It's more related to staying ahead of the supported versions (and not staying on an older version that's no longer supported). There's really no reason not to upgrade, especially if you're ACC based. I've upgraded large projects in a couple of hours - and for larger jobs, we use Imaginit's Clarity product for the task automation to do this over a weekend, etc.

There's been enough good enhancements, especially over the last few releases, that we don't hold back on upgrades any more. It's mainly limited right now by the schemas and consultants more than anything else.

[RSomppi]

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@dbutts7 wrote:

It's more related to staying ahead of the supported versions (and not staying on an older version that's no longer supported). There's really no reason not to upgrade, especially if you're ACC based. I've upgraded large projects in a couple of hours - and for larger jobs, we use Imaginit's Clarity product for the task automation to do this over a weekend, etc.

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In my world, it's more about collaboration. Getting all inerested parties to upgrade is usually more difficult than not upgrading. Having the luxory to upgrade for the sake of upgrading has never been a part of my normal workflow. I usually have to wait for years to be able to enjoy newer features. BEPs usually dictate a version to be used unless it becomes necessary to upgrade.

[dbutts7]

I definitely understand your circumstance and hate that you're having to go through it. After a malware attack in 2020, we made the move to cloud-based projects, and wound up spending a large amount of time educating our partners and clients on the why's and how's of upgrades and platforms. It took a while, but it's more rare for us now to have someone stay back on an older release. Getting users off of perpetual licenses and on to named subscriptions definitely helped with this.

Getting back to the main topic, upgrading 1500 projects at once will definitely come with risk. It's not the act of upgrading, it's the current modeling issues that will cause you more problems. Unresolved errors, missing links, poor file naming practices will all lead to problems with doing this. I would make sure you take actions to fix these first (plus audits and purges) before upgrading any project. And I agree with Rsomppi that you don't want to upgrade just for the sake it, especially mid project. Worked with the older, less active or closed out projects first, and then move up.

Are any of these in Autodesk Docs?

thanks - David B.

[floretti]

Great discussion, thanks for your inputs @dbutts7  and @RSomppi.

Being in the retail business, we don't have only projects to deal with, we have buildings to maintain (our supermarkets stores). A Revit model in our world starts when the first concept drawings need to be created for a new store and the model will live on for the life of the store (likely decades) and be used for every piece of work that needs to be done to the store. Upgrading versions for us is not optional and we need to do it for absolutely all projects as everybody uses the same Revit version (approx. 60 users) and same plugins.

Having said that, our models are very simple when compared to architecture firms models:

• We rarely have linked models;
• Services and consultants are not using Revit;
• They are not workshared;
• They are about 400MB each.

Yes, all the models are in ACC but most models (about 80%) are simply inactive as the stores are not going through any changes. The other 20% have some kind of project going on (a refurb or an equipment rollout of some kind).

@dbutts7 Just reading your comment about having all Revit updates installed and Desktop Connector versions aligned, I'm guessing this is true if I were upgrading the models using Revit but the plan is to use ACC. Regardless, all Revit installs will be aligned and latest and I do the same as you, I always wait until the first update is released and avoid using first releases of Revit, which means 2025 is not an option yet.

[RSomppi]

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@floretti wrote:

Upgrading versions for us is not optional

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Gonna have to disagree, It is absolutely optional for all of the reasons that you mentioned. You are choosing to stay with a current version. Not a bad choice for active projects, but still a choice.

If i were you, I wouldn't update every project in your library/archive or whatever you call it and I would definitely skip 2024.

[dbutts7]

FYI - I used to design Winn-Dixie stores out of AutoCAD 12 (not 2012) back in the early 90's, until they pulled out of NC. We did a lot of the same - new stores/renos went to 60% to get the cost estimate, but it wasn't unusual for one to get shelved until they determined if the revenue would warrant the new/reno package. Bad part was only getting paid for 30% deliverable...but I digress.

I manage about 1200 projects in Revit on Autodesk Docs right now, but I am a bit surprised about the conditions you have. What are the consultants using, AutoCAD? If you write the check, tell them to use Revit. 

I always use workshare files to allow for multiple users to access and edit a file, even if it's just a retail store and especially with 60 users. But I also use worksets to group items, so if you're doing everything including MEP/Structure in one model, at least you can use the workset to break them up (BTW, I don't recommend having everything in one model but understand it). I got into the habit of separating the store from the content/shelving, etc. into different models to use different layout options as separate models rather than design options, since MEP doesn't support them. I'm interested in hearing more about what the 60 users do with the files.

But back to main topic - I agree that you should upgrade these, even if it's just to 2023. I've seen clients (especially government agencies) that are still working in 2016/2017 which are not even supported on Windows 11. The longer you wait to upgrade the more likely you are to encounter errors, so the risk of not upgrading is higher. You can go either way on the when, but I would not go past to an unsupported version, like 2021. I would have upgraded these to 2023 to stay no more than two releases behind. And that's the nice thing about keeping them in ACC, with the project upgrade.

I have to ask - how are you running the upgrades from ACC? A custom app, Clarity, etc.? The files still have to be opened to upgrade them, so now you've peaked my curiosity.

thanks - db

[dbutts7]

Is this what you are using to upgrade, or is it something else:

https://help.autodesk.com/view/DOCS/ENU/?guid=Upgrade_Revit_Cloud_Models_Docs

thanks - db

[floretti]

@dbutts7 That's exactly what I'll use to upgrade the models but I'll automate the process using Power Automate as no one wants to be doing that one by one.

The consultants are using AutoCAD but the challenge is not even that, it's the process. We run our projects in the D&C (design and construction) system, as in, it's a one way street where, once the tender (or bidding) is done the consultants sort themselves out without coming back to the architecture department. We don't even receive the AutoCAD drawings as there's no point. We looked into modelling some services but the ROI just wasn't there as most of the work is renos which don't even touch services.

I also looked into worksharing the files but the return wasn't there either as it's very rare that two people need to work on the same model at the same time and there was no business case to buy 60x C4R licenses.

Yes, back to the main point, upgrading these models is not optional as I said before as we may not have too many active projects now but I can guarantee that 95% of the models will be touched in the next 12 months. Also, unless there's a very strong reason for it, restarting the process of getting all installation files and plugins ready for 2025 is not an option now. It takes several months to get it all ready with IT and plugin vendors.

That's correct, we need to stay aligned with the latest supported versions as we also receive models from external architecture firms and developers and we need to be able to use them.

I still don't know if there are limitations in ACC as to how many projects I can upgrade at the same time.  😂

I might need to reach out to my contacts at Autodesk.

Thanks for the discussion, guys. Great to hear your experiences.

[dbutts7]

Quick note - I would recommend installing the 2024.3 update that was recently release to address remaining issues with the schemas that were still not getting resolved. Please try this out and repost here if you are still getting errors. 

thanks! David B.

[floretti]

Thanks, David. I need your help making the connection between cloud upgrades and Revit 2024.3. How do they relate to each other?