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Is Eagle retired?

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Message 1 of 176
CE3Electronics
27596 Views, 175 Replies

Is Eagle retired?

Hi,

I just had the most stressful conversation with sales.  I went to buy another Eagle Premium license and they said it was a discontinued product.

Is it true that Eagle has merged with Fusion to the point that the Eagle software will no longer be available?

Please help.

175 REPLIES 175
Message 2 of 176

No @CE3Electronics EAGLE will not retire, as one of their developer had replied to my similar question. Look at the homepage of the control panel in EAGLE.

 

I think they don't want to sell EAGLE as it was not originally developed by AutoDesk (Just my opinion 🙈)

So, from now you have to buy license for Fusion 360 and EAGLE will come for free with it.

 

One of the logical reason of doing this can be interpreted from this link

https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/overview they have shown the different stages of product development and Electronics is one of their part.

 

Message 3 of 176
tkornack
in reply to: CE3Electronics

I noticed a number of great new features added to PCB layout in the August release of Fusion, but it seems that standalone Eagle is no longer getting updates.

 

How will Fusion address the needs of PCB users who cannot use their forced-cloud solution on Fusion? Anyone working on export-controlled electronics cannot use it. 

 

Message 4 of 176

I too would be interested in knowing officially whether Eagle standalone is going to be fully retired as a product, only receive non-critical updates going forward, or if it will keep being a fully supported product. And if it's being retired, a roadmap for the retirement.


I'm a regular forum user, and not affiliated with Autodesk, but I like contributing to the forums to learn new things about Eagle. If this post answered your question, feel free to mark it as a solution. If something needs clarification, feel free to ask.
Message 5 of 176

I think EAGLE users(me too) are waiting for lot of features at regular interval. 

 

Isn't AutoDesk interested in developing EAGLE as fast as FUSION360?

 

@jorge_garcia @edwin.robledo 

Please clear our doubts.

 

Regards,

Sumit

Message 6 of 176
matt.berggren
in reply to: tkornack

Thank you for your post. Short answer is “no” – eagle is not retired. Longer answer is that we are doing a LOT of work in Fusion at the moment to tighten up the electro-mechanical workflow and ensure that since the EAGLE license now entitles users to Fusion, that we extend the overall capabilities of the “system” (eagle + fusion) to deliver the best overall experience / complement of features. The Fusion environment happens to have a range of additional (software) libraries / tech that as a development team, we observed stand-alone EAGLE wouldn’t be able to adapt (easily) to the EAGLE environment. So, with the addition of geometry libraries that are second-to-none and other tech like version management, materials libraries for electronic part models, thermal simulation for electronics cooling, etc. we have been trying to extend the overall workflow to drive the most value to users. The limits of what EAGLE’s core is capable of has been something of a roadblock (though I think we’ve done a fair bit to extend it over the time Autodesk has owned the product) but with the integration with Fusion, the collective capabilities will enable much more than we could with just EAGLE.

That said, the fact that we have added the PCB design capabilities into Fusion is an indication that at some stage we may tip the balance in favor of one platform, but doing that means ensuring the value drivers are there well in advance of that moment. Not to speculate too much on the future but I would hope (personally) that what we end up with is an extremely stable, fully-featured electromechanical design & manufacturing platform. To achieve this we have to know that what EAGLE does well, Fusion does better. Until that day, we are investing heavily where we can (and being a bit creative as engineers to maximize the returns on our development-investment) with the hope we create the most value with little to no net-impact to the overall cost. The goal again being to simply deliver an do end to end product design & fabrication platform which enables you to do more.

I hope that helps and sorry if a bit vague. It’s well-intentioned and I am hoping you find the combination of tools adds up to something much more powerful, even if a bit more than what you need if only thinking about the PCB in your daily work.

Thank you.

Best regards,

Matt - Autodesk
Message 7 of 176
sumit809.sd
in reply to: matt.berggren

Thank you for your detailed explanation. I'm convinced that you are working to achieve a greater objective.

So, my new queries are:

1. Will there be no focus on making EAGLE a powerful software at least as good as Altium?

2. If you are trying to bring lot of features in FUSION 360, will AutoDesk be interested in working on EAGLE development.

3. How much time will AutoDesk need to shift its focus from EAGLE standalone product? a year or 2 or more?

4. If EAGLE is being integrated with FUSION (and that too with many powerful features), what will be the purpose of EAGLE for its users, as there will be no major updates? It's really heartbreaking to see minor feature like improvised ratsnest in FUSION and not in EAGLE first.

5. In order to keep up with the technology, shall I have to learn Fusion to make a best of my design? I find Fusion very complicated software, can you please share the link where I can get started with Electronics Design section of Fusion? It will be of great help.

 

Thanks!

Regards,

Sumit

Message 8 of 176
tkornack
in reply to: matt.berggren

Matt, I am pleased to see Autodesk putting serious resources into the fusion implementation of eagle and it's clearly starting to pay off.

 

I just hope you acknowledge that there is portion of your users who must use either local storage for their work or use AWS GovCloud. Perhaps you could define a premium service tier with one or more of these:

 

1. AWS GovCloud as the cloud backend

2. On-premesis server implementation

3. Local file operations for a subset of fusion functionality (such as PCB and basic modeling) 

 

I would feel a lot better if one of these options got onto your roadmap. 

 

Message 9 of 176
matt.berggren
in reply to: tkornack

Thank you for your message.  We are investigating AWS gov cloud with Amazon at the moment.  There's no concrete plan just yet but we understand and appreciate the ITAR requirement and we are working to address it in the future.  Amazon is a strong partner to Autodesk and has been working with us for quite some time on the move to AWS as well as investigations into gov cloud.  We use them extensively and I'm hoping we arrive at a plan quickly, then we can share a roadmap around it.

 

Best regards

 

Matt

Message 10 of 176
Anonymous
in reply to: matt.berggren

I've read this thread with interest but it does not answer a simple question I have - can I still buy Eagle?   I ordered a 1 year licence yesterday from Farnell but they have cancelled my order because it has been "taken off sale".  

Message 11 of 176
tkornack
in reply to: matt.berggren

That's great to hear that you're aware of the issue. 

 

Please understand that it's far more broad than ITAR. Every subject on the commerce control list covered by the EAR has this need. The list is spectacularly broad and covers basically the best stuff in every corner of industry. 

 

https://www.bis.doc.gov/index.php/regulations/export-administration-regulations-ear

 

 

Message 12 of 176
matt.berggren
in reply to: sumit809.sd

Thank you for your message.  I'll try to answer your questions below and hopefully you'll discover that what is in-development is intended to address items 1 & 2 in your list very directly.  Timing is everything and we are not slowing down but instead, we are in fact moving faster, just with bigger problems to address that take more time.

 

1)  Without getting into the specifics of any competitor (I worked at the one you mentioned for nearly 15 years, since the days of Accel / PCAD) we know what we have to do in Schematic & PCB to deliver the best-in-class tools for high-speed/low-speed, analog, digital, RF, microwave, backdrilling, length-tuning, tapering, teardropping, flex, etc.  However I would hesitate to compare what we have planned with others because Fusion has given us a much wider net (😀) to cover things like electronics cooling, fan design / heat sinking, even CNC control for PCB prototypes or nesting for PCB panels (the reason why we extrude the copper in the 3D board).  Whether this ends up in EAGLE or Fusion, depends really on having access to the best of the Autodesk geometry, rendering, simulation, etc. pipeline and the work to limit 'rebuilding' what we already have from scratch (imagine integrating Fusion into EAGLE versus EAGLE into Fusion).

 

Thinking ahead, imagine PCB with a "Constraints Mode" that determined tangency, snapped to arcs|circles|splines, snapped better object to object and which could deal with complex poly lines / splines / polygons in a way that was more like Mechanical CAD sketch tools (or dimensioning like MCAD!).  Just for board shapes or alignment of objects this would be a great feature to have.

 

Thus we are intending to deliver (like the new Push & Shove capability that can make room for components) something comprehensive and undeniably powerful; but for now, we need two tools to achieve the broader objective of building products and we are supporting them both.  Meanwhile, we are laying foundations that will help us make the decision about how to consolidate the experience so you only every learn one environment that is as direct & easy to use as possible.

 

A few hints (and no timelines, as I mentioned these are BIG things to solve) ...we are right now working on Rules & Constraints, even more improvements to Routing / Push / etc, more physical design reuse, improvements to sketch routing, polygon handling, true-type fonts, and a lot more with little intent to slow down.  We are likewise looking at rendering performance, graphics pipelines, memory performance, etc and we are working hard on schematic & libraries to bring them into the modern age.  Much of this work is still in code that looks like EAGLE but much has had to change because the EAGLE data model didnt support some of these changes.  We're likewise reviewing all of the experiences with more than 3-4 steps and trying to simplify hundreds of multi-step workflows that look more like our call-stack than they do component placement for example (Add->Select->Place->Name->Value-Esc->Add->Select->Place->Value...etc.).  We've been a bit quiet because many of these are long lead-time problems that take multiple people to get right (a luxury we hadnt had prior to this point).  

 

Still, I would like to imagine that one day we are working in one code base and you are using one 'set' of tools that look and feel similar.  Since porting Fusion into EAGLE isnt going to happen, then the future will mean building something better on the Fusion framework without compromising EAGLE's capability.  That too is a long lead-time problem and will take a lot of effort to get us there.  Hence why we just decided charging you for EAGLE and Fusion wouldn't be fair.  We need you if we are to be successful and we needed to make it possible for you to work in both to help us get this right.

 

2|3|4)  I think item "1" kind of explains item two but for now we are two independent systems that are expanding what users can do.  If it can't be done in EAGLE or doesnt make sense, we are releasing it in Fusion.  If it was built on the branch that targets Fusion, we release it when it's ready.  If we can (like splines) deliver something back into EAGLE, then we will do that instead.  As far as timing is concerned, I think the essential timing of "one platform" the north star is 'when we deliver the better experience overall' and that has to be able to compete with other, more sophisticated tools, without compromising ease of use.  I wont build another "xyz" tool because we would just be competing in the same arena as company "xyz" and not really focused on what matters more, user productivity.  If we end up with a UI that looks like company "xyz" we have failed.  If every operation needs a menu item and the menus are 5 layers deep, we failed.  So we are really thinking deeply about how to avoid those things.  At which point that doesnt mean EAGLE stops working, just that the best experience will be an improvement over EAGLE today and you would already have an open door to just walk into when you're ready.  My expectation is that probably takes us a year or more to get as much as we want to get into the SW and get the XD issues worked out or even update our build pipelines, CICD pipelines (test automations), QA, etc.

 

Ratsnest is a good example of where we are at.  With regard to ratsnest, just untangling (😀) the EAGLE code around ratsnest took a massive effort.  The same was true with Layers.  In the process, we changed things considerably underneath.  That was built from a forked code base that includes aspects of Fusion in the mix (a project that internally we were calling electron...get it?  Fusion?  Electron?  Im a physics guy so it was funny to me & nobody understood my first choice, lepton.). 

 

We decided to release it (not delay it) and ensure it is super solid, then we'll decide whether the changes we made (like many others) can / should be supported on the two platforms (Id like it to be easier but the more we delay things the less value we deliver to the user community).  Truly, we'd like users to start to poke around in Fusion and tell us what they think is missing, get them complaining, excited, talking with us (like this conversation) and then decide how to proceed / what our next steps should be.  (I personally believe we should do this in collaboration with the community and let you have opinions on our strategy.). However we also understand that folks have a day job and we have to continue to make them productive.

 

5). To get started in Fusion the first thing to note is that we introduced the Electronic Design document.  I would just think about this as a wrapper that binds together a schematic and a PCB (single pair today, but with a goal of eventually supporting other m:n relationships).  That allows reuse of the same schematic but targeting different physical form-factors (eg. an SD card reader that could be a USB device, a module, desktop, laptop, etc.). As far as learning Fusion Electronics, @edwin.robledo & @jorge_garcia have produced a lot of content to get started and there are tutorials located here and here.

 

Sorry for such a long post but please keep sharing your thoughts.

 

Best regards

 

Matt

 

 

Message 13 of 176
sumit809.sd
in reply to: matt.berggren

I really really appreciate the efforts and the way you explained what is going on behind the doors.

 

I was really curious about why EAGLE development has slowed down, since I didn't know that it was being integrated to the Fusion.

 

So, again my new query is (I hope this thread will help other users of community to know the future of EAGLE😀)

1. The overall motive/vision of Fusion is Making a complete product right from scratch on the Single platform, right? Then what will happen to the users (like me) who are only interested in creating Schematic and PCB layout and have really become comfortable with EAGLE. The users who are waiting for the new features. 

 

2. Ultimately, will all the features being developed on Fusion framework, be added to the EAGLE? 

 

3. Is everything (upto EAGLE 9.6.2) completely ported to Fusion's latest version? Since I have little interest in basic enclosure designs, will it be the best decision for me to shift to Fusion to use the latest EAGLE features?

 

Thanks!

Best Regards,

 

Sumit

Message 14 of 176

@matt.berggren 

Thank you for a comprehensive description of your current work and visions for EAGLE. Here are some of mythoughts.

 

One of the features I like the most in EAGLE is the automatic backannotation between board and schematic. I believe this is a fairly unique feature compared to other E-CAD packages, which generally consider schematic capture and board layout to be different processes, and so updating between the two is a manual operation. This has been especially useful for reverse engineering work, (producing a complete schematic and board file with a physical board as the reference) where this automatic connection has sped up the process. The only thing I regret in this regard is that the connection didn't go further, so that you could create/delete signal wires from the board editor while F/B annotation is active. Reverse engineering has certainly not been the only time when this has come in handy. My workflow is usually to do schematic and board in parallel. And for this reason I can also see the power in what you're describing, to integrate this sort of instant feedback to mechanical CAD as well. It's mostly not relevant for me personally, but I'm still excited to see it happen.

 

Now for the negative side of things. While other people are concerned about ITAR compliance and such, these are my gripes with the Fusion/EAGLE integration:

 

1) The majority of my current workflow is on Linux. And I have not been able to get Fusion to run well on Linux. I can get it just barely run in Wine, but the experience is really poor because it produces UI bugs. I can get it to run in Windows in a VM, but now the issue is that performance suffers, and there are graphical glitches that makes the 3D workspace (for regular M-CAD) in Fusion an eyesore. The point is, it's not a good experience. I would not want to have that as my only option to run EAGLE. So whatever you do, I ask you to keep old versions of EAGLE available for licensed users, even if you discontinue development.

 

2) The UI differences. Fusion electronics has a ribbon UI like the rest of Fusion. I guess time would tell, but I imagine it would take some time for me to get used to using EAGLE with that kind of UI.

 

And as an aside: as pointed out elsewhere, there are graphical performance issues under Linux since many versions back. I bet the cause is something simple, like drawing the same data multiple times by mistake or to lazily fix some redraw issue. Or waiting for VSync multiple times. But the fact is that is the issue is still there. I thought I'd mention it since I already brought up Linux.


I'm a regular forum user, and not affiliated with Autodesk, but I like contributing to the forums to learn new things about Eagle. If this post answered your question, feel free to mark it as a solution. If something needs clarification, feel free to ask.
Message 15 of 176

Like @didrik.madheden I am on Linux. I have no interest in MCAD and just want the core Eagle running natively and cleanly on Linux. Every time I read one of @matt.berggren's future roadmap posts the impression I get is that Autodesk have no long-term intention of supporting me at all. I'm just not the user base they want.

I've gone back to v7.7 because I have a permanent license for that.

Message 16 of 176
matt.berggren
in reply to: Anonymous

To the question of can you still purchase eagle, if you purchase Fusion 360 (same price, found here) you actually have access to both EAGLE and Fusion and both have an electronics environment for PCB design & fabrication.  The Fusion 360 entitlement now entitles you to both EAGLE and Fusion 360 and is actually about $15 USD less than the price of EAGLE Premium.  So yes, you can purchase a license to access EAGLE premium, just that that license is a Fusion 360 license and not EAGLE.  Sorry for that confusion, I agree it isn't evident without a bit of an explanation!

 

Best regards,


Matt

Message 17 of 176
DFxLab
in reply to: CE3Electronics

Thanks Matt for providing such a long post sharing with us the ongoing development of both Fusion and Eagle software.

 

I'm also using Eagle under linux as my main professional tool for design ecad designs. I tried Fusion under wine but I also have some UI issues and the overall experience is a bit slow. I highly prefer the native and light user experience I have with Eagle software, even on some quite old computer I still have.

 

My main concern is to choose the right ECAD tool for the next years. So if there is no plan to fully guarantee that the Eagle standalone software will be maintain over years, even with no major improvement, I will have no choice that to switch to linux alternatives right now.

 

Regards

Message 18 of 176
Anonymous
in reply to: CE3Electronics

We wanted to use a newer version of Eagle, but as of Jan 1, 2020 we're not allowed to use Microsoft Windows products...so we're exclusive on Linux and we're air-gapped from the 'Net.  For security.  So we need local file storage, we need Eagle to run under Linux, and we we have absolutely no need for Fusion 360 (We run BricsCad under Linux for mechanicals).

 

I tried calling the Autodesk sales desk a month ago, and it's like Autodesk is trying their hardest to drive Eagle into the ground.  No real Linux support, can't get Eagle as a standalone package, and I even asked about a license dongle option since we're not on the 'net, and never will be ...Nope. 

 

We even had money to spend at Autodesk, but they couldn't sell us what we needed...so we'll go elsewhere.  Otherwise we have Eagle 7.7 which works fine...not the latest goodies, but it works, and we have a huge library built for that, all with known working & tunes parts layouts for 10's of thousands of parts.  I wish ADesk would get the message.  Microsoft & Cloud storage is so 2019...

Message 19 of 176
Timon-MESO
in reply to: matt.berggren

The largest part of my professional work is also happening on Linux. I would really like to hear more commitment on the Linux side of things regarding the long term move to Fusion. When ever the topic comes up there is simply silence and that gives a very worrying outlook.

Message 20 of 176
mp54de
in reply to: matt.berggren

Merging Eagle into Fusion as a concept makes sense to AD and they’ve reasoned why.

What does NOT make any sense at all is to lose the local file capabilities of Eagle. It’s not just ITAR, I have NDAs with smart customers who will NOT allow me to store anything in the cloud. As I said, they’re smart. 
I also use Fusion and to me Fusion on the cloud is not a deal breaker but for Eagle it’s a big deal. From what I’m seeing happen here... it seems that very soon I’m going to have to look elsewhere. 

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