POLAR ARRAY

[Keith.Challinor3761]

HELLO 

 I am trying to create a dynamic block of a flange the number of hole around the flange will change as the flange gets larger and so will the hole diameters 

is it possible to control these are am i restricted to visiblity states 

[Libbya · Accepted solution]

You will need visibility states in order to both change the number and the diameter of the holes.  You could use the ARRAY command and formulae in order to change the number, but you would then be unable to change the diameter of the holes.  

[Keith.Challinor3761]

Thank you for the quick response , I though as much but was hoping that I was missing something , one for the wish list then I think
Thanks again for the confirmation

Best regards

Keith

[Libbya]

Probably easiest would be a visibility for each number of holes and then dynamically alter the hole diameters within each state.  

[Anonymous]

Thinking on your dilemma it may be possible to use a Block Properties Table to control the Width of the Flange and each width then changes Diameter of the Holes (1/4", 1/2", 3/4"....), and starting point of the holes (1 1/2", 2", 2 1/2", 3" down from top).  Then an array function to increase the number of holes without having to use a visibility parameter.

I work in the steel industry so "flange widths" are standard.  Or are you talking web connections?  Each steel beam would take different size and number of holes along the web of the beam when connecting to another beam.  Is this the direction your going for?  

[Libbya]

If it were a linear or rectangular array, then the dynamic array action would work fine for this, but the OP appears to be asking about a polar array.  The dynamic array action does not accommodate polar arrays, and a polar ARRAY object nested in a dynamic block does not allow the function of dynamically altering the diameter of the holes.  

[Anonymous]

Sorry I can't do screencasts.

Not to cause an argument but it does allow it.  Make a box and a circle near one of the corners.  Give the hole a Diameter constraint. and the Width a vertical constraint or horizontal constraint (whichever you intend for your "flange width").  Insert a block table.  Insert the 2 parameters making sure the Width is the first column.  Make several widths, 10", 12" 20"...…  Then in the Diameter parameter set a different diam. for each (1/4", 1/2", 3/4", 1").  The hole diam. will change based on the width.

Next create your Polar Parameter, Linear Parameter, or XY Parameter.  Then create your array action off that parameter and only select the circle that your representing a hole.  Set your distance.  Polar Parameters get sloppy, but can be done.

Then test your block.  Use the dropdown from the table to drive the width and it'll drive the diameter.  You'll have to change your array each time but the Diameters of the holes will adjust based on the table.

If you wish to set the distance of the hole from the corner for each width you can do that too.  put the constraint parameter in the table and it will adjust appropriately.

[Libbya]

I don't understand what you are saying.  I am comfortable with disagreement (as long as it is done in a civil manner) as that is where I tend to learn the most.    

When you add a dynamic array action to a polar parameter, linear parameter, or XY parameter, the objects form a linear array (objects in a line) not a polar array (objects arrayed in a circle).  The dynamic array action does not support polar arrays (even if associated with a polar parameter)  If you create a polar array using the ARRAY command and then nest that array within a dynamic block you lose the ability to dynamically alter the arrayed objects.  What part do you disagree with?  It is unfortunate that you cannot do screencasts as I would like a demonstration if you can produce a polar array within a dynamic block that allows the functionality of both dynamically adjusting the number of arrayed objects and dynamically modifying the geometry of the arrayed objects (other than the scaling of the entire array).     

[Anonymous]

Apples to Oranges comparison. lol.  Some confusion was bound to happen when they have 2 things named POLAR.  Polar Array outside of the block. and Polar Parameter inside the block.  

And now I realize this is talking pipe flanges to bolt connect another pipe.  I was thinking it was steel flange on W-Shaped steel.

Wow.  Sorry.  My bad.  Polar ARRAY can't be done inside a block.

Going back you could set up the block with the block properties table with 2 diameter constraint parameters.  Burst the block then polar array the hole... It would make the process a little quicker.

WOW.  SORRY.

[Libbya]

You might even say that when naming those objects, AutoDesk was bi-polar.  😛  

[Anonymous]

But yeah if you set up your flanges width and corresponding hole sizes and Center flange to Center hole distance in the block table.  Insert the block. Then use the BURST command it will maintain the diameters chosen along with any other properties set up.  You could then quickly polar array the holes.

You could set up the table.  and test out the parameters.  Probably quicker than doing each one individually over time.

[Libbya]

It depends on how many different number of holes (visibility states) are required and how often the block is used or adjusted for different sizes.  It doesn't take a particularly long time to set up each visibility state and the setup time for the full block (that can easily adjust between sizes) might pay off in the long run vs. an approach that is initially less time consuming but more time consuming for each use.  Here is the gist of what I was previously suggesting:

[Keith.Challinor3761]

Many thanks to all who havetaken the time to respond to this thread

I think I am sorted now , using Visibility states

Thanks again

Keith

[Anonymous]

On a more BIM oriented position it's possible to tie in attributes for Materials, Bolt/Washer specifics, pressures it can hold, and such items that go with the flange.

In addition to Flanges being standard in sizes it's possible to build the visibility states into a block table as well to drive the Diameters instead of manually adjusting.  Sure you'd have to set each visibility with the number of holes and locations (or rotate them like you show).  And with that you can copy and paste from excel into the table for the parameters.  Just another option.  So many different way to manipulate to get what you need.  Those BIM items could also be put into the table.

I personally like the idea of the Table driving the dimensions.  It takes away some of the variability of making mistakes from stretching each time.

Again sorry for my confusion.  The Block Editor "POLAR" parameter should have been named "RAY" as it acts more like a ray than polar around a point.

[Keith.Challinor3761]

I would agree that the polar array is incorrectly named and misleading , I would also agree with table driven blocks for the same reason as you

Keith

[jpinner1]

I feel like this was unjustly overlooked...