Offset behaviour in dynamic block on 90-degree curve with straight edges

[andrealmeida1]

I need to create a 90-degree curve with an internal radius of 500 mm and 50 mm tips. The idea is to start with one lane and be able to increase it with stretch to six lanes, for example.
The problem is that the command does not allow me to create the tracks as if they were offset from the first track (Pitch 85mm).
I am attaching a file with a drawing of a 90-degree single-track curve and the same curve with six tracks, so you can see what I want.
It also contains a dynamic block and the behaviour I achieved, which does not satisfy my requirements in the slightest.

The block should be able to create any curve between 1 and 6 tracks.
Can anyone help me?

[Libbya · Accepted solution]

See attached.  Let me know if you have questions.

[andrealmeida1]

Thank you for your prompt reply.
That is exactly how it behaves.
I wasn't considering using visibility states & Lookup parameters.
I have two additional situations, which may complicate the block:
1. I may eventually have curves with up to 8 lanes;
2. The possibility of having curves from 5º to 90º with 5º increments, in any number of lanes.
I am attaching a drawing in version ‘v01’ to show the idea. If you can help and redo the block, I would be very grateful.

[j.palmeL29YX · Accepted solution]

Try the attached suggestion. 

The value set of the ang1 may be set to Ang type "None" (if you want). 

[andrealmeida1]

Thank you very much, you did exactly what I asked, perfectly.
I would like to have some insight into how you built the block. When I edit it, the block has 8 lanes; I cannot see the version with 10 lanes. It doesn’t have “Visibility States”.

In addition to the block already achieved, I would like to add side guides, which could behave as I mentioned in the DWG. Would that be possible, or would the block become too heavy?
I believe the selection of the type of guides should be done using “Visibility States”, right?

Thank you very much for the support, I wasn’t able to achieve this effect in the blocks myself...

[j.palmeL29YX]

Before I invest any more time in this block, I would kindly ask for a complete description of the intended functionality?
- First, we had the arrangement of several 90° bends (lanes).
- Then, the opening angle of the bends was also to be variable.
- Now you want to add side guides.
- What will be added next?

Since each new requirement may influence the block design strategy, it would be very helpful to know the complete desired functionality of the block from the outset. (This does not include a promise that all requests can be fulfilled.)

And please tell us exact and complete what you need:
Example: You wrote
- more than 45 degrees -> 3 supports
- less than 45 degrees -> 2 supports
what for equal 45 degrees?

Sincerely

[Libbya]

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@j.palmeL29YX wrote:

Before I invest any more time in this block, I would kindly ask for a complete description of the intended functionality?
- First, we had the arrangement of several 90° bends (lanes).
- Then, the opening angle of the bends was also to be variable.
- Now you want to add side guides.
- What will be added next?

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That's why I quit.  

[andrealmeida1]

Good afternoon,

I apologize, I’m new to the forum and wasn’t sure to what extent I would receive such valuable responses and help. I understand what you explained and I would like to apologize in advance for the fragmented requests.

My intention was to go a little deeper into this area of dynamic blocks, which are very useful for me when creating layouts quickly and flexibly.

For side guides, for curves over 45 degrees, there would be 3 supports on each side; for ≤ 45 degrees, two supports on each side.

In this curve block, would be good to include, besides the guides, a symbol for the support legs. It could have legs on both ends, only on one side (left/right), or no legs at all. I saved a version 03, where I represented these possibilities.

Finally, I’ve seen blocks that represent a text field with a description of some block variables. I would like to list:
“No. of Lanes| Curve Angle | Guide Type | No. of Legs”

Examples:

• 4 Lanes | 45º | Fixed Guides | 1 Leg Set
• 4 Lanes | 60º | 1 Fixed Guide + 1 Adjustable Guide | No Legs
• 4 Lanes | 30º | 2 Adjustable Guides | 2 Leg Sets

One question: for counting the blocks, I can use the BCount command or extract a table with Data Extraction, correct?

Once again, if you could provide some information about the methods applied in the block, I would appreciate it. I understood the constraints, but besides that, there must be other important aspects that I would like to understand, so I can use them in the future in other blocks.

Thank you so much.

[andrealmeida1]

Sorry for that Libbya, I won’t do it again

[j.palmeL29YX]

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@andrealmeida1 wrote:

I would like to have some insight into how you built the block.

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Tomorrow I can show you a video what I did. 

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@andrealmeida1 wrote:

In addition to the block already achieved, I would like to add side guides, which could behave as I mentioned in the DWG. Would that be possible, or would the block become too heavy?
I believe the selection of the type of guides should be done using “Visibility States”, right?

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Based on the information which we know until post#5 I can present a suggestion as attached (and yes, I added visibility states). I don't yet see a way automatically to switch between 3 supports and 2 supports depending on the angle. Do it manually.
For the "one lane variants" (which you have shown on the right most) you can put some more visibiity states. You can try to add these in the given block definition, but I'm afraid - because you must select the needed one manually - it will be hard to handle. Try it.

[j.palmeL29YX]

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@andrealmeida1 wrote:

In this curve block, would be good to include, besides the guides, a symbol for the support legs. ... 

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Aha, and now we also have to accommodate legs! Do you know, how much different visibility states would be necessary to realize all possible combinatons? I think in this parametric driven block that would be not practicable.
For the legs I'd suggest to create a block which includes an useful Basepoint and an alignment parameter. Then place the legs manually where you need it. (I know, it is a crutch, but ... )

[andrealmeida1]

And regarding the block description, is it possible to at least display the 'No. of Lanes | Curve Angle'? Afterwards, will I be able to extract a list with the number of curves and subtotals?

[andrealmeida1]

Hello Jürgen Palme

Can you help me with the video? And regarding my last post about the line with description and a possible list with curve subtotals in a given layout, can you help?

Thank you

[j.palmeL29YX · Accepted solution]

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@andrealmeida1 wrote:

Can you help me with the video?

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Sorry for the delay. 

The attached video shows in rough steps what I did.

1. Draw ALL geometry you need in the block (lanes, fixed supports, adjustable supports, legs)
Note: for the leg and the adjustable support I created 2 sub blocks.
2. Add geometrical constraints to get a stable shape.
3. Add the both dimensional parameters L and ang1
4. Add dynamic dimensions (command DcLinear, DcAligned and DcRadius) to get a full constrained geometry. Check the status with BCONSTATUSMODE = 1.
5.(The main cheat to get the effect of "changing the number" of arcs/lanes):
Modify the values for the Radius dimensions with a formula:
rad_x = min(Nominal_value_x, L+500)
This means that no radius can be greater than L+500. This gives the impression that an arc that is too large has been deleted. In reality, however, its radius has been changed to the next smaller value.
6. Last I added 24 visibility states to choose any of the combinations of fixed support, adjustable support, legs and number of supports. For naming the visibility states I choosed a 3 sign nomenclature:
x-y-z

x: for number of supports:
- 2 -> if ang1 small
- 3 -> if ang1 large

y: for display the legs
- N -> no legs
- R -> legs on the Right side
- L -> legs on the left side
- B -> Legs on both sides

z: for support type
- N -> inner and outer arc get fixed support
- R -> inner arc gets adjustable, outer arc fixed support
- L -> inner arc gets fixed, outer arc adjustable support.

Of course you can change the visibility names to your comfort. 

Using the block: 

Depending on your need you must set the appropriate visibility state manually. I don't know a way (for this constraint driven block) how to choose the needed visibility state (e.g. 2 supports for small and 3 supports for large angles) automatically.

And also I don't know how to extract the properties of the block references. 

HTH 

Let us  know if you need more detailed explanation for the one or other step. 

[EDIT]: Small bug in dwg fixed

[andrealmeida1]

Good morning Jürgen Palme,
Thank you for the video and explanations.
Regarding the block, I opened the version you sent, however the curve angle is not working and it gave the error "One or more constraints cannot be resolved." Could you please share the file again?
Thank you.

[j.palmeL29YX · Accepted solution]

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@andrealmeida1 wrote:

...  the curve angle is not working and it gave the error "One or more constraints cannot be resolved." 

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Hmm, here it works well. Did you download the file attached in post #14?  

In the video I added some hints how you may extract some data of inserted block references (without formatting the table). Perhaps this helps you to get the needed information. 

[andrealmeida1]

Yes, I took it from post #14, I’ve already restarted AutoCAD and it still doesn’t work... As for the counting feature, that was exactly it 🙂 thanks. If you could resend the working block, I’m not able to change the angle..

[j.palmeL29YX]

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@andrealmeida1 wrote:

 If you could resend the working block, I’m not able to change the angle..

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Here you go. But I have no hope that this will solve the problem on your end. Unfortunately I have no idea what causes the unexpected behavior.

Can you perhaps show a video (including the complete application window) so I can see what you do and what happens? 

[andrealmeida1]

Hello,
I had never done a screen recording before, I used the native Windows tool, I hope it works.
I noticed that when I click on the visibility icon, the menu was not recorded, but it’s still understandable.

[Brock_Olly]

Awesome block.
To chime in: in autocad LT 2024 I also cannot seem to control the angle of the block, not by the grip or the properties.